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For Tom Carter<\/a> – an artist and entertainment historian with a penchant for Vancouver\u2019s lost theatre district \u2013 an essential piece of heritage advocacy involves telling colourful stories about Vancouver\u2019s neighbourhoods and its characters. Carter’s favourite histories are not the ones about industry, ribbon cuttings and upstanding citizens who go to St. George\u2019s and UBC \u2013 but instead about the city\u2019s \u201cnefarious weirdos who drank too much beer and did horrible things” – and he suspects he’s not alone.<\/span><\/p>\n Carter\u2019s historical passion is Vancouver\u2019s vaudeville history \u2013 the mixed variety entertainment that thrived along Main and Hastings from the 1880s-1930s featuring dancers, comedy routines, \u201cfreak shows\u201d and animal acts \u2013 a mix of low and high-brow entertainment for the everyman. Carter has spent several years researching, painting and collecting paraphernalia from that era and has a special fascination for the nightclub czars who made and lost small fortunes running Vancouver\u2019s show-business venues.<\/span><\/p>\n On October 22, Carter and civic historian John Atkin will give an illustrated talk on Vancouver\u2019s vaudeville history and the Hastings Street “Great White Way” as part of the Vancouver Historical Society<\/a> <\/i>lecture series. The talk is by donation at the Museum of Vancouver at 7:30pm.<\/span><\/p>\n The following is a condensed and edited transcript of a conversation with Carter about this lively piece of Vancouver history:<\/span><\/p>\n Spacing:<\/strong><\/span> Tom, tell us a bit about vaudeville history in Vancouver – what do you most want people to know about the city\u2019s historic entertainment district?<\/span><\/em><\/p>\n TC<\/strong>: People have no idea how vibrant the entertainment scene on Main and Hastings was a hundred years ago. There was an obscene amount of entertainment here full of saloons, vaudeville theatres and pool halls; more entertainment than a city our size would warrant. Hastings was a spectacular street, full of animated signs, beautiful theatres, restaurants and nightspots \u2013 all the best hotels were here. This was the real downtown back then \u2013 the current Granville Street was considered stuffy and suburban. <\/span><\/p>\n Spacing: <\/strong><\/span>Why did vaudeville thrive in Vancouver?<\/span><\/em><\/p>\n TC<\/strong>: Geographically, we were at the junction of a number of transportation systems \u2013North-South the Great Northern and Northern Pacific railroads terminated here and East-West there was the Canadian Pacific and Canadian National. We had shipping companies with lines down to San Francisco, Los Angeles and Seattle and big CP ships to Asia. If you were on the road entertaining, you\u2019d go through Vancouver and as a result, the greatest vaudeville circuits in North America came through this town.<\/span><\/p>\n The other part of the vaudeville story unique to Vancouver has to do with our rainy climate. If you were sitting in some damp rooming house that may or may not have a shared toilet down the hall, you can picture wanting to be in one of these theatres instead. Imagine coming into the city after living in a logging camp and looking down Hastings and seeing spectacular moving billboards covered in lightbulbs sitting on top of roofs like in Times Square. Inside the theatres it was all pipe organs, orchestras and gold \u2013 like a French palace. I also love the idea that as you\u2019d walk down the street, doors would open and music would come blaring out. Conversely there were streetcars rattling and rumbling down the street with claxon horns and bells clanging. <\/span><\/p>\n Spacing:<\/strong><\/b><\/span> <\/b>You describe the Hastings Street vaudeville scene as entertainment for \u2018the everyman\u2019 \u2013 who was the \u2018everyman\u2019 and what kind of entertainment did he seek?<\/span><\/em><\/p>\n TC<\/strong>: In the 1880s-1930s, Vancouver had a vibrant population of lumberjacks and speculators who had holes in their pockets \u2013kind of like the guys in the oil fields today. You had a city full of guys with tons of disposable cash who didn\u2019t have wives to calm them down and wanted to be entertained three to four times a week. <\/span><\/span>Vaudeville was anything that could hold their attention for 8-10 minutes before they\u2019d start to yawn. It could be comedy, juggling, feats of strength, animals doing crazy things. <\/span><\/p>\n Alexander Pantages (a Greek-American prospector and showman who built a string of theatres across North America) was an illiterate, hardworking guy who oversaw the bookings and knew what the working guy wanted. He\u2019d look at an act and say, \u201cthat\u2019s too pretentious, it\u2019s too highfalutin – I don\u2019t want it.\u201d Whenever he had the feeling that something was playing down to him, that he should<\/i> like it because it was better taste, he was like \u201cscrew it.\u201d But if some guy could juggle plates and make him go \u201cWow!\u201d that got in. The Pantages was the first in Vancouver to bring in ethnic acts and jazz. The Orpheum theatre (the only remaining purpose-built vaudeville theatre in Vancouver) was more highbrow but they brought in some really great shows.<\/span><\/p>\n Spacing<\/strong><\/b><\/span>:<\/strong><\/b> You have a huge collection of old vaudeville programs and memorabilia. What\u2019s the kookiest act you\u2019ve come across \u2013 something you wish you could have seen?<\/span><\/em><\/p>\n TC<\/strong>: The Orpheum had a performer who bounced down a flight of stairs on his head. I saw photos of this guy and thought, \u201cOk, that\u2019s it – I\u2019d pay to see that.\u201d I\u2019d also love to see the Marx brothers do one of their routines; they played Pantages twice and the Orpheum four times. <\/span><\/p>\n Spacing<\/strong><\/b><\/span>:<\/strong> <\/b>How did the entertainment culture evolve in Vancouver after vaudeville died?<\/span><\/em><\/p>\n TC<\/strong>: Vancouver has the distinction of being the place where vaudeville came to die; meaning we had it longer than anywhere else. Vaudeville disappeared in North America in the early 1930s as a result of the Great Depression and the \u201ctalkies\u201d, especially after people started getting entertainment on TV for free but – in Vancouver we kept it going through the 1940s and even 1950s. <\/span>After WW2, the guys who took over vaudeville theatres went for straight burlesque \u2013 giving audiences what they couldn\u2019t get on TV \u2013 girls with pasties showing a lot of leg and jokes that were a bit blue. There was a ton of post-war returning G.I. money and that\u2019s what they wanted. But Vancouver had a Vice Squad with a couple of people that were always a bit prudish and they\u2019d periodically shut it down for crossing the line.<\/span><\/p>\n Most of the vaudeville theatres were torn down in the 1960s. To be fair to the people who tore them down, most of them were losing tons of money. At that point, nobody was going downtown to big old theatres. <\/span>They were watching everything on TV or going to suburban theatres – this was the era of the shopping mall theatre. <\/span><\/p>\n Spacing<\/strong><\/b><\/span>:<\/strong> <\/b>What do you see as the key difference between entertainment culture then and now?<\/span><\/em><\/p>\n TC<\/strong>: Many of us are so disconnected now \u2013 we live in a YouTube digital world where we have all the entertainment we want at our fingertips but we\u2019re not close to any of it. When you see something funny you\u2019re the only one laughing because you\u2019re watching it by yourself. In a vaudeville theatre you weren\u2019t just laughing alongside hundreds of other people in the room but also with the guy who had just done it. <\/span>That\u2019s the greatest difference \u2013 it was assumed that you went out 3-4 times a week and were entertained communally. <\/span><\/p>\n Spacing<\/strong><\/b><\/span>:<\/strong> <\/b>The first Pantages theatre on Main and Hastings was the oldest remaining vaudeville theatre in Canada when it was torn down in 2011-12 (the Heritage Canada Foundation called its demolition one of \u201cCanada\u2019s worst losses of 2011\u201d). What was your reaction?<\/span><\/em><\/p>\n TC<\/strong>: That really kicked the tar out of me because I look around the city and think, what\u2019s left to save? I mourn it from a historical standpoint because now you can\u2019t build Canada\u2019s oldest vaudeville theatre someplace else. I also mourn it from a practical standpoint because I think there\u2019s a tremendous need in Vancouver for a theatre that size. As an 800-seater, it could have been a really necessary venue in so far as being bigger than the Cultch but smaller than the Vogue. A lot of rock shows would\u2019ve loved to be at a venue on Hastings and Main in an over-the-top Victorian theatre dripping with gold. We could have had this jewel of a theatre with killer acoustics. <\/span>You could\u2019ve kept the original streetscape with the Blue Eagle Caf\u00e9 and the original facades. You could have had housing, shops, offices and the theatre. It could\u2019ve all been saved and it took somebody at City Hall with a bit of vision and guts. If Jim Green was still alive it wouldn\u2019t have happened. That\u2019s my soap box. <\/span><\/p>\n Spacing<\/strong><\/b><\/span>:<\/strong> <\/b>What does the loss of Vancouver\u2019s historic performance venues say about the city\u2019s attitude on heritage preservation?<\/span><\/em><\/p>\n TC<\/strong>: We\u2019ve done a really great job of erasing it truly and completely. The current city council doesn\u2019t consider heritage a priority; it gets in the way which is sort of the developer\u2019s attitude. <\/span>One of the problems with Vancouver is that everybody wants to live here – we\u2019re constantly growing and booming. So if you have a 2-storey heritage building and you can put something 20 storeys on it, unless John A. Macdonald lived there, how will you save it? An old theatre just doesn\u2019t stand a chance. <\/span>The Pantages was in the centre of the Downtown Eastside at Hastings and Main which used to be the best part of town \u2013 that\u2019s why it was built there \u2013 right next to the Library and City Hall. Now of course it\u2019s \u201cthe worst part of town.\u201d But it\u2019s so shortsighted to think that for all time it\u2019s always going to be the centre of despair and not to think in 20 years it might be the coolest part of town again. <\/span><\/p>\n Spacing:<\/strong><\/b><\/span> <\/b>As an entertainment historian, what\u2019s your next project?<\/span><\/em><\/p>\n TC<\/strong>: <\/span>I\u2019d love to see an entertainment and performing arts archives in Vancouver \u2013 a place to preserve some of the theatre relics, photos, documents and other amazing things we\u2019ve managed to salvage from the Pantages and other venues and a space to tell stories about other eras in Vancouver\u2019s entertainment history like the punk scene. The important thing to me is to connect with folks that are not long for this world and get their stories down while they\u2019re still around. I know a lot of people have amazing collections of music, memorabilia and narratives and I\u2019d love to create a space for crowd-sourced community history and get younger people engaged and collecting stories from their older relatives.<\/span><\/p>\n ***<\/p>\n For more information on Tom Carter, and to see his beautiful paintings, visit his website<\/a>.<\/em><\/p>\n **<\/p>\n For more information on the upcoming Vancouver Historical Society<\/span> lecture series, click here.<\/a><\/span><\/em><\/p>\n *<\/p>\n Madeleine de Trenqualye<\/strong> is a historical researcher and writer who has worked for the National Historic Sites and Monuments Board<\/a> and the Museum of Vancouver<\/a>.<\/em><\/p>\n *<\/p>\n Other Spacing Vancouver and Spacing interviews:<\/em><\/p>\n\n
\nLiving History: An Interview with Eve Lazarus<\/a><\/li>\n