Everyone knows that walkable streets and sidewalk terraces enrich and enliven public space. But what happens when pedestrians and diners are vying for the same bit of sidewalk?
This summer, Pois Penché has rolled out the red carpet and set up a dinning room on the sidewalk of De Maisonneuve, at the corner of Drummond. Some pedestrians seem content to share the alley between tables with bow-tied waiters. Others don’t feel comfortable strolling through the restaurant’s terrace and prefer to make the detour into the adjacent bike lane.
Is this a rare space for scruffy concordia students and stroller-pushing moms to mix it up with wine-and-diners? An experiment in mingling public and private spaces? Or has the restaurant overstepped their boundary by encroaching on the sidewalk and imposing themselves on pedestrians? What do you think?
Oh, and is this even legal?
33 comments
I saw something similar the other day on the west side of St-Laurent around Duluth or Rachel with a bar/resto’s terrasse effectively taking up the whole sidewalk.
I don’t *really* mind it, but in the moment, it bugged me.
I was considering writing to the arrondissement about this very establishment. Either you have a terrasse directly outside your building, or you have it along the curbside (as has become common on Mt-Royal, St-Laurent and St-Denis). You can’t have both.
I usually enjoy sidewalk terraces, both as a pedestrian and diner, but this restaurant in particular bugs me. The sidewalk is so busy here that it creates a bottleneck and you end up jostling the diners. It might work on a quieter street or with a wider “through” lane.
I’ve walked through there and I really couldn’t stand it. What a ridiculous idea on their part and what an inconvenience for the customers too, I’m sure. I’d hate to have to eat outside there!
Not sure about this. I mean, it is common to see such a set-up in Europe and this example certainly helps re-invigorate de Maisonneuve Blvd. which is much needed.
As a scruffy Concordia student I make a point of walking through the terasse whenever I pass by if only to get “why are you here stares” from the waiters & customers, partly because I know I couldn’t afford to eat there.
There is another restaurant a block east, Chandelier I think, that is also on the side walk.
Not such a big deal since 5 years ago these corners were pretty disgusting places and well outside the Concordia pedestrian hot zones.
I would rather share the side walk with these diners then with the mad hatters crowd that used to have this location. Besides a man needs a place to smoke.
Andrew, you are such a rebel! Maybe through your very presence, those misguided bourgeois poops will re-evaluate their meaningless, materialistic lives. I wonder if my tripping over the legs of students sitting at the Java U tables at the very crowded corner of Guy and De Maisonneuve has the same effect! Party because I know I can’t afford their very delicious bocconcini betty wrap.
I threaded my way through this narrow sidewalk-corridor myself last week and wondered as well if it was legal.
Seems to me restaurant patrons would have no right to complain if a homeless person stood next to their table. It’s public space they’ve occupied.
i usually pass there with my bicycle and what i’m thinking is:
why would someone in their right mind want to enjoy eating there (as opposed from gobbling up fast food), inhaling the smog from Boulevard Maisonneuve and listening to the loud car noise???
In Austria where I come from (and other European countries) we have plenty of sidewalk cafes/restos, but it is a very different atmosphere – why?
most of them are along quiet/small streets, there is enough space between passers-by and customers not to feel annoyed (but that’s a different aspect given how much people in North America are used to being squeezed together in restos and exhibited to a loud environment).
outside terrasses are often isolated by wood fences with ivy or large green plants to create a cozy separation and some intimacy from looks of passers-by and traffic (he plants in the photo still have way to grow for that).
for me, i did not even assume that a non-customer could still pass through – so i personally see it as an encroachment of public space. also pedestrians on the bicycle path don’t make it any safer for them or me.
the peak of ridicule for me is the fake red silk on the chairs though! how much do you have to pay to eat there again?
The only annoying thing about this place, I find, is how outraaageously Fraaanch it’s trying to be.
I have nothing against restaurants, even fancy ones I can’t afford to eat at. It doesn’t bother me in the slightest. And I like lively cityscapes with terrasses and people using public space. But the fact that it might be very inconvenient for a person in a wheelchair or pushing a pram to get by does bother me very much. There are a few terrasses up where I live (Petite Italie) that are taking over far too much breadth of the pavement – at one point I couldn’t push my bicycle along (I was obediently walking it, not riding on the sidewalk) and started thinking about disabled people and parents of babies.
(Most of the terrasses around here are fine – there are just a couple of violators).
Tara, why on earth would you find a French restaurant annoying?
I was glad that stf has weighed in, because he clearly identified some of the reasons the setup is more annoying than similar pavement cafés in Europe.
The legality of this hybrid terrasse is actually questionable – even if the borough did give them a permit. It is stated, in bylaw R.R.V.M., C. O-0.1, that the operator of a “terrasse” or “contre-terrasse” on the public domain must ensure the security of those who rightfully use the public domain, in this case pedestrians and cyclists. In this case, I think it could easily be argued that the security of both is compromised – if pedestrians have to use the bike path during rush hour, for instance.
Now, whether the borough would actually enforce its own bylaw is a different issue… but personally, I think it is unacceptable that a sidewalk be almost completely occupied by a restaurant or any other private operator, especially considering that Maisonneuve was redesigned specically to give pedestrians and cyclists their own right-of-way free of obstacles.
I’m also a scruffy Concordia student, who might sometimes be able to afford to eat there, but I wouldn’t, since I think
a) it’s inconsiderate at best and unsafe at worst (as Maria points out) to take up the entire sidewalk (if its legal, the law needs to be changed)
and
b) auto fumes (& noise) don’t mix well with food.
I think Tara’s point is that it may be a pretentious anglo attempt to emulate french-style terrasse culture, with a misplaced stab at “sumptuous style.” Fake red silk indeed. (I have no idea who the owners are.) Overall sense of trying too hard. If the owners are french, they should be ashamed.
Personally, I don’t really mind the terrace being there BUT …
I do use that stretch of the bike lanes quite a bit and vehicular and pedestrian traffic already provides challenging obstacles. This terrace inevitably invites pedestrians to use the bike lanes, making it even more dangerous for all of us. This is my biggest problem with it as a cyclist.
Thanks for raising the issue. I was wondering about that, too.
It is very dangerous, as it means cyclists could have to swerve into automobile traffic – which drivers wouldn’t expect as there is a dedicated cycle path. And fast-moving cyclists (I am not one of those) could cause serious harm to a pedestrian.
By the way, save your money. I visit foodies site, and critiques of le Pois penché are not very good, for its price point. There are many other far better restaurants (French and other) in Montréal.
I definitely don’t dislike French restaurants. Kai got what I meant- I find it passes bistro chic and winds up in themey-land. And I don’t think it’s “anglo pretension”, but rather a gaudy overshoot by an admittedly very successful restaurateur (Peter Morentzos).
We call this anti-social behaviour (the restaurants).
There should be some barriers to prevent pedestrians from wandering on to the bike path, which they do 1) suddenly and 2) at a place where cyclists are not expecting pedestrians to jump into their way.
Not that restaurants really care about anything except mislabelling cheap ingredients as surloin and filet mignon.
Definitely a public nuisance. There are many places in the city where sidewalk terrasses work quite well, but this isn’t one of them. There’s just not enough room left for pedestrians so they use the bike lane, which is really dangerous for both cyclists and pedestrians.
It probably wouldn’t take much to get the borough – Ville-Marie, I believe – to crack down though. A few letters and/or comments at borough council meetings.
This is a very valid point to bring up. Just as many others have pointed out, I think it does border on public nuisance. That said, I do believe that the creation of sidewalk terraces brings something to the street life in many locations, including along de Maisonneuve. The problem is that the terrace in question has crossed the line, blurring the line seperating public and private space, and has layed claim to the entire sidewalk! (Even if there is a small strip of sidewalk available, it is not nearly enough and pedestrians are left navigating the gauntlet of service staff and large trays). Overall, this specific terrace is becoming quite a nuisance and I whole heartedly agree with Michelle, the restaurant needs to pick a side, they should not be allowed to have both!
I don’t think they should necessarily take the entire terrace out; certainly if they removed the tables from the outer edge I would feel less awkward walking past. That might actually MORE resemble the Parisian terrace that this place poorly attempts to imitate. While I was living there it seemed like any establishment where you can eat and drink something will put a table out, even if the sidewalk was little more than a few feet wide. But one thing I did notice: They NEVER block both sides of the sidewalk.
Say what you will, I am glad to see this part of town taking off with such establishments. I mean, this is the heart of the Golden Square Mile and let’s face it, hit the skids from about 1972 until the last couple of years. It has a ways to go for sure.
1) there is a barrier so no bikes will be swerving into traffic, I know our government is extremely inefficient and really likes to spend our tax dollars but they didn’t spend all those millions on only painting lines for the bike path.
2) the terrasse takes up about 2/3s of the sidewalk which is at least 3 times larger then the average sidewalk so there is plenty of space to get through. It is a little ackward walking through the terrasse but there is plenty of room and I didn’t notice any problems even on GP weekend.
3) I think they hire scruffy Concordia student there as waiters and busboys.
I think if they want to try and turn public space into semi-private space, it is up to us to try and take advantage of that. I see nothing wrong with asking for a french fry or two from diners taking up the sidewalk, especially when they cost an arm and a leg on that red-carpet joint!
I agree: lots of leftover bread rolls last time I walked by.
I just walked through there the other day. While it’s kind of wacky and interesting, I did get weird glances from diners, which I thought was kind of awkward and rude since they’re on MY sidewalk space :P
It’s cool, but it’s also a bit annoying. I also do wonder if it’s even allowed, that’s a good question
It’s common practice in many cities to have seating on both edges of the sidewalk. In fact, that kind of arrangement is common in many other parts of Montreal, too, like on McGill Street in Old Montreal and Bernard Street in Mile End.
In this case, though, the layout needs a bit of tweaking. Maybe the space next to the street should be limited to two-seater tables.
As for the comment about sidewalk cafés in Europe being limited to quiet sidestreets, that’s not true at all. In Paris, sidewalk terraces are ubiquitous on the big boulevards, which are far busier, noiser and more polluted than de Maisonneuve will ever be.
There are plenty of outdoor cafés on the Gran Via in Madrid, which is certainly not a quiet street, what with six lanes of fast-moving traffic:
Chris,
I agree with you, but everything depends on the specifics of the situation. See, in your photo pedestrians have no problem passing through, the tables are not blocking the entire sidewalk. Gran Vía, a major street, has very wide sidewalks. Ditto for rue McGill back home. Speaking of Madrid, where it’s not the case (Chueca or in the area just south of Gran Vía) there are no tables on the sidewalk – certainly on the exterior side..
It’s a venture by the same gentleman who runs the Queue de Cheval … there’s a mini-review here: http://eatwellmontreal.com/new-restaurants-openings-2008/
What’s with all the comments about this place being expensive to eat at and “fancy”? Frankly this place isn’t even remotely upscale, the food isn’t great either.
As a Concordia student I appreciate the fact that the area is being rejuvenated, but personally I was hoping that the building in which this restaurant resides would be torn down and replace with something that doesn’t look like a kitsch Dutch shack.
Anyone who would appreciates a good meal and has money to spend has many other better choices in the city. And I think the owners will quickly realize this or else they will have to close shop. Did they even pay off their 500$ plastic stark chairs yet? The place seems empty most of the time besides the few confused tourists.
But getting back to the point, any restaurant that decides to setup shop on a busy sidewalk and wants to be upscale at the same time is trying to be too many things at once. Not too mention they’re like what a block away from a strip club? I don’t mind the other sidewalk setups near by, like the Dundees one.
Well, it’s a year and a half later, and this resto is still using the same configuration, and I still see pedestrians in the bike path all the time.
Did anything ever happen here? anyone speak with the borough? check the laws? measure the sidewalk? etc.
Sure, there is space for pedestrians to walk through, Drummond + Demaisonneuve.
However, each passerby should make it clear how inconvenient it is to do so.
I got into heated argument with waiter the summer before last.
Escalated into possible physical confrontation, so just yelled from a distance.
Passing taxi encouraged me to just walk away.
There must be something about this type of encroachment that defies bylaws.
At least let yourself be heard, cuz it just aint right.