Today’s transit-complaints column in the Gazette investigates whether or not Montrealers are exceptionally rude when they use public transit. Two transit users write in to moan about how people on commuter trains, metros and buses never give up their seats to pregnant women and how many of them insist on wearing their backpacks (rather than taking them off and setting them on the floor) even when it’s crowded. In response, the Gazette turns to two sociologists who say that yes, Montrealers lack transit etiquette and that they ought to be a lot more considerate than they are.
It’s hard to argue with that point: like any regular transit user, I get frustrated with people who stand on the left of the metro escalator when others are trying to walk up and who insist on crowding the front of the bus when the back is nearly empty. But these problems are not unique to Montreal; in fact, they’re endemic to transit systems around the world. Last summer, I moved to Hong Kong, a public transport paradise with buses, minibuses, ferries, trams, light rail and a metro. Virtually everyone here uses some form of transit in their everyday life but, strangely enough, there is very little in the way of public transit etiquette. In the metro, people stand in front of the doors when you’re trying to get off; there’s always someone blocking the escalators, oblivious to the line of people waiting to get past them (but who are, in a quirk of Hong Kong culture, too timid to ask them to move to the side).
The sociologists quoted in the Gazette blame Montreal’s “individualist” culture for the lack of civility on public transit. But, as Kate McDonnell points out at Montreal City, our transit behaviour might not be rudeness, just indifference: “Most of us cope with the stress of crowded buses by zoning out in one way or another.” Can you really blame them?
20 comments
Pour ce qui est des gens qui bloquent les escaliers mobiles, j’ai noté que depuis quelques années, la situation s’est nettement améliorée, mais ce n’est pas grâce à la STM, qui s’obstine a refuser à demander à la clientèle de se stationner à droite en alléguant que «ça risquerait de déséquilibrer les escaliers».
Excuse-bidon par excellence, car n’importe-quel ingénieur vous dira qu’un système est toujours calculé pour faire face à la pire situation de charge. La preuve, d’autres transporteurs ont des affiches demandant aux gens de stationner à droite!
My partner had about a 50% success rate once she was clearly showing (note: was winter), which isn’t really polite…and it was mostly the old people giving up their seats for her! But that said, one thing we like about this place is that people know how to keep to be cool about distance, even if it means not noticing that they could help you sometimes. It’s not a cold city to us, at least personally, but people aren’t showy about it.
Just an aside: this piece made me realize how much I miss your brilliant photos.
I agree with Kate it’s not about rudeness but indifference. Most of the transit users are in their own bubble, almost unaware of anything apart from not missing their stop.Nowadays people are distracted with ipods, laptops, and other gadgets on the metro. Makes the ride a lot quicker just to ignore the mayhem around you at those peak hours.
I still prefer to read and keep an eye on my surroundings.
Are you kidding me? While there’s certainly room for improvement, Montrealers are downright saintly, against other places. I was seriously SHOCKED when I came here and saw people LINE UP for a bus (instead of crowding around where the bus will stop and pushing each other to get on– this HAPPENS in Ottawa). And the “standing on the left of the escalator” thing? Definitely doesn’t exist there.
I’m not saying that Ottawa is a good watermark to hold, err, ANYTHING against, from a metropolitan standpoint, but that might give it a bit of perspective, at least. I’ve lived here for about three years now and still I get perplexed when people complain about how rude public transit is.
As Jean was saying, the STM really is responsible for instilling a culture of good behaviour. I do like the ads that show that one guy “doing his part” the janitor who is picking up the tossed newspapers. But there really needs to be more signs explaining how properly to behave. Simple ignorance is as much a part of the problem as non-social attitudes. Though people really are behaving more and more selfishly these days and it is saddening. You should be aware when you are in public.
In general, I find people exceedingly polite here — the only place I’ve seen better behaviour is in Toronto and in London (where they have signs saying stand to right, walk to the left just in case you hadn’t noticed). Outside of rush-hour, people can bunch up in front of the métro doors preventing others from coming out, but I’ve seen countless people giving up their seats to the pregnant and the old, and even once preventing an oblivious young man from sitting in the seat to hold it for the old woman getting on behind him. I’ve also seen people ask others to take their back packs off, or make a lot of noise as they walk up the left side of the escalator, and the offenders comply with no fuss.
It actually goes along with my view of Montreal, where people don’t get too offended when others don’t follow the rules too closely. The overall feeling is one of do what you want, who am I to judge — unless you start bothering me, in which case I’ll speak up. But people here do not frown on others’ lack of civic savoir-vivre as quickly as they do in other places.
I also have nothing but praise for bus drivers here, who do such lovely things as stop and wait for the light to change to let little old ladies waving frantically from the other side of the street catch their bus. This, compared to memories of Vancouver where the driver pulls away from the curb even as the little old ladies have made it close enough to strike the side of the bus with their cane in frustration.
I think we’re pretty good here in Mtl.
Although once in a while I see some really rude people. And I wonder what’s wrong with them.
I think like it was mentioned, that there’s a problem of people just simply being ignorant. I am sometimes, I’m too busy reading my book or sleeping to notice that someone needs my seat.
Another thing is that… last year after a surgery, I still had to take the bus and public transit to get to school and I needed to sit down for fear of my stitches being ripped or other things going awry, not to mention pain. And I remember getting dirty looks from pregnant women who clearly thought I was being a prissy bitch. But I wasn’t. I was in pain and was afraid of being ripped open.
I work in a place where a lot of pregnant women come and buy stuff and I just get this impression that they think they’re gods. Sometimes there are just things you don’t know about another person.
And yes it’s courteous to give up a seat, but for all you know that person sitting down could have a bad back or have a certain ailment. Not everything is visual.
As for everything else. I just think people need to be more aware of these ‘rules’. I remember when I first started taking public transit I had no idea I was supposed to put my backpack on the floor, or move to the back of the bus. And now I know all the bells and whistles. I think there just needs to be more awareness on everyone’s part.
It would also be great if the buses would arrive on time and if there were MORE buses.
Always fun to have a good whine. Just goes to show you can find prove anything if you look hard enough. Maybe those sociologists and the Gazette are overdue for a ‘holiday’ in Paris.
Tristou:
Regretfully, someone in TTC management decided to remove the walk left/stand right signs from all of the escalators in the past year, which might be the reason for a rise in accidents on the things.
Riddle me this: why do so many Montrealers not realize that getting off at the front of the bus slows everything down?
I have ridden lots of transit in almost every city in Canada and several in the USA.
People seem to be rude or nice everywhere you go.
Lots of flakes on the TTC around Eglington and down to Union.
On the TTC Subway many passengers stand at the doors stop after stop after stop and do not get off, blocking others wanting on or off.
This is even tho’ the car has room in it to move away from the doors.
Happens on busses in Montreal or Toronto, also.
What is very annoying is when the car is full of under-twenty-somethings sitting down and all the sixty-somethings have to stand.
Ditto those that sit in the aisle seat and the seat next to the window is empty, and they get bitchy if you ask to sit, even thought YOU have been on your feet all day and are twice or thrice their age.
Same on TTC and in Montreal.
Bus chauffeurs, and Motormen on streetcars in Toronto, may well be a bit rude, but, when you see the travelling scum and fools they sometimes have to contend with, you can’t blame them part of the time.
Factor in poor weather, pedestrians and lousy motorists, not a great job some days at all.
A TTC driver was blinded in a gun incident not that long ago.
Those new-look Montreal busses leave alot to be desired compared with their predecessors. Why is a seat facing backwards?
Toronto’s version of the ‘Kneeling Bus’ looks way better and is much more sensible in interior design.
http://www.majhost.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=1148044
The two blue lights by route sign indicate bus lowers and a ramp folds out for handicapped and wheelchair patrons.
Some of these busses have very slow-closing back doors and it is quicker for all to get off at the front at non-rush hour times.
If a bus or streetcar ‘misses a light’ due to a slow door or thoughtless passenger, delays compound.
It seems there is more Graffitti and scratched windows INSIDE Montreal busses and the Metro than in Toronto.
Best invention for transit since the Electric Streetcar and PAYE?
AIR CONDITIONING!!!!
Worst invention for transit since its inception?
Cell Phones with intrusive ring tones and their moronic users who babble on about SFA ad mauseum. If ring tones are an indication of intelligence, we are in for some bad times.
A horizontal tower of Babel sometimes moving, but too often stopped in traffic punctuated by nerve grating sounds and moronic dialogue.
Altho’ not Transit, equally annoying are those slow drivers that hog the left higher-speed lane on multi-lane roads.
Also those that block the whole supermarket aisle with their carts to have a good gossip or come around the aisle corner at high speed hitting you with their cart and giving YOU a dirty look for stopping THEIR cart so abruptly.
I use the metro/bus 6 days per week and I usually stand, even when there are seats available.
In general, I find that Montrealers are fairly civilised. There are exceptions of course, but I think that we tend remember the few bad examples and forget the vast majority who know the etiquette.
There are annoying backpack people and left-lane blockers. There are people who stand in front of the door, even when they’re not getting off for 10 stations, and the bargers who wont wait until everyone is off before they head in. There are also people with SUV baby stollers and wheeled-thingy draggers. (UGH! Wheeled-thingys!!) The worst though is when people won’t squish in the back of the bus and you’re left waiting as it leaves with 10 available spaces. Grrr!
That said, most of those people are like Steph (and me) when we first arrived. They don’t yet know the system or they are casual users who will never know the system. I refuse to become stressed-out over what amounts to what, a 5-10 second delay in my VERY important day? LOL!
Just think how monotonous our daily travels would be without the odd person disrupting our relentless flow. The odder the better I say!
@ Christopher: Good to hear from you again!
Walkerp, your comment about “instilling a culture of good behaviour” reminded me of the programs that are used by TransMilenio, the transit agency in Bogota Colombia. They actively encourage their riders to behave in certain ways, going so far as to have a ‘users guide’ of how to use the transit system http://www.transmilenio.gov.co/WebSite/Contenido.aspx?ID=ComoUtilizarElSistema_ManualDelUsuario
They also make ‘educational videos’ which are rather amusing….
. . . I was seriously SHOCKED when I came here and saw people LINE UP for a bus (instead of crowding around where the bus will stop and pushing each other to get on– this HAPPENS in Ottawa). . . .
——–
Back in the ’70s in Toronto, it was interesting to note how people queued up at Bay St. stops. Bay serves the civil service and the financial core.
On the Spadina bus line in the ’70s, people swarmed around the stops. Spadina Ave. is the garment district and it’s every one for himself.
Today, it’s different. Everyone seems just a little pushier and assertive and selfish. Everyone is in his little world with the iPod or Walkman or whatever.
Now we have great crowds of disconnected people. More’s the pity.
Nothing gets on my nerves more than people who jump the line. You have seen them in action. They come to a long line, and the first move is usually to check the schedule which allows them to at least be in the front of the line. Then somehow they completely forget everything and just continue to stand somewhere near the front. Some of them will ask a question or say something to one of the front people in line as part of their blending in routine. Bus comes and they go in either first, second or third. I have nothing against kids trying stuff like sneaking on, etc. But these are usually single adults. And they are good at it. If you confront them on the bus, they instinctively start playing everyone else as though they are being harassed by some oddball. Or they cannot understand English or French. The list goes on. They make me crazy, heh heh.
This is probably why people just charge the bus in so many other places.
When I arrived I found the lining up phenomenon rather odd. Frankly I still do. It just means everyone has to stand in the cold instead of the nearby shelter or station.
Otherwise I don’t think Montreal is particularly good or bad compared to other cities. Some people are just as dumb and others are just as courteous.
Hmmm, I spent a month last summer traveling Japan on trains and transit. It really did show me how rude Canadians can be on transit.
I live in Toronto and have used transit in Paris, London, NYC and Montreal. There were rude people in all of those cities, but I never saw any rude people in Japan. I think it really illustrates the difference between a community-centred culture and an individual-centred culture.
People who are “in a bubble” or zoned-out while on public transit are actually being inconsiderate. When you live in a city, you have to be conscious of the space you’re taking up and be considerate of others. I’m constantly irritated at the jacka$$es that ride the streetcars with their backpacks and who block people from getting to the back of the car. Take a look around people, you’re not the only one on the bus!
The Japanese transit systems have lots of instructions for how to behave on transit and subway manners,/a> include “not doing anything that may inconvenience other passengers.”
Maybe all subways in the world should deploy a campaign similar to this one: Tokyo Metro Manners
Christopher:
The TTC removed the “walk left / stand right” signs because they decided it was a safety issue to have people walking up the escalators. Ughh. :(