Alternative Grounds digs BikeFriday

19 comments

1. There are always two sides to a story. The Star reports today that the driver who hit the 7 year old girl was not on his cell phone at the time, and was travelling at only 20km/h, half the posted speedlimit. Apparently, the girl rode out onto the street, and the driver (who was driving a large Econoline van) did not see her.

   I rarely drive, but do so one some occasions when I have no choice (ie visiting my parents in Pickering). I remember once driving on Finch in Pickering, and as I was approacing a crosswalk (crosswalks have no lights in Pickering), a little boy darted out and I almost hit him. The problem was that he was stading parallel to a light pole that was right at the edge of the road, and he was completely hidden from view by it. Thank God I didn’t hit him, but it wouldn’t have been my fault if I did. There was nothing I could have done other than brake and veer (which I did).

   I feel bad for this girl, but don’t just assume that the driver was at fault.

2. In fairness, the Toronto Star is reporting that the driver was not talking on his cell phone until after the accident, when he was calling 911.

   I bike, and get annoyed by drivers who are mindless to cyclists. And while I find it disturbing that a driver didn’t stop for a pedestrian light (although again, in fairness, when I first moved to TO I had no idea about pedestrian lights), cyclists have to take some responsibility for obeying the laws and conventions: riding a bike on a sidewalk and across a street are particularly dangerous and are the most susceptible ways to getting hit.

3. 3pointshooter> A 7 year girl biking on a sidewalk in a small bike is not the same as an adult with his/her street bike going along the sidewalk. There is a reason bikes with wheels below a certain radius (can’t remember the size) are allowed on the sidewalk; it is meant for children. So for all purposes the little girl is still seen the same way as a pedestrian when crossing the pedestrian light. But I still agree with you that biking on a sidewalk is a particularly dangerous thing to do.

   The thing about pedestrian lights is that they give a false sense of security to pedestrians and drivers in general either don’t notice them or don’t care about them. That is why you see so many fatalities in those goddamn things. It is the same old thing about giving cars priority over everything else. They should change all of those pedestrian lights with proper streetlights of even full stop signs. Of course such will never happen, here in the GTA a minute or two of a driver’s life is worth more than risking the whole life of a 7-year-old girl biking with her dog…

4. Thank you for the clarifying commments. That is why I said “reportedly” though… it was the Star (and I think others too) that originally said the driver was on the phone.
   The driver was going slowly because he had already stopped for others to cross, right before the girl. So, I’m not sure if the point about the driver’s speed is relevant here.
   I am not familiar with this crosswalk, personally, so I’m not sure if there is anything that can be done to improve it, make it safer..

5. Carlos > I would argue Crosswalks are better than stoplights. I rarely see anyone run them and I don’t think its a false sense of security. I feel secure enough that I can stop traffic at my will. Can’t do that with a traffic light. Crosswalks are the most powerful thing pedestrians have.

6. If those crosswalks are so great then how come so many people have been hit while crossing them? Put mandatory stop signs or light signals and slow down traffic.

   It always comes down to this, it is always about cars, traffic and stupid drivers. I know of some communities that don’t allow cars on the streets, I wish I had the means and ability to move there. God! I hate cars, I rented one for the weekend and I wish I could just drive the damn thing off a cliff. Nothing will change until people realize that driving is a privilege, not a God given right. (sorry about the rant)

7. I agree with your rage. But looking at the stats shows that people get hit more at traffic lights that at crosswalks — even more than jaywalking. I think your concerns validates my point that Xwalks are safer — at lights drivers pay attention to the lights more than peds, but at Xwalks the ped rules. You slow down traffic just as much, but when its clear to go, traffic flows. This is better for everyone, including our lungs.

8. I think also ped crossings make the ped more attentive to traffic, where as at lights we tend to assume the car will stop. And ya, so annoying waiting for a light to change. Everybody flows better with the crossings (kind of round-about-ish).

   I would like to see stats to of ped crossing vs. standard light accidents though.

9. Why don’t crosswalks use flashing red lights? Cars are supposed to stop rather than slow down (or proceed with caution) and the red would be clearer.

10. The stats aren’t easy to work out, because I think what you really want is an injury/fatality rate per pedestrian using the crosswalk or traffic light. Busier intersections tend to have lights, so traffic lights might see more total injuries, but they’ve also handled many more people safely.

    Carlos, it may well be legal to ride a small bike on the sidewalk, but it’s not legal to ride any bike across a crosswalk (see ““Riding on sidewalks”).

11. crosswalks are incredibly outdated, whoever came up with them had his or her mind in the right place but welcome to the real world. I will take jaywalking to just pointing my hand out and hoping cars stop.

12. bill> Huh?

13. It’s quite possible it was really a split second thing and I see some dorkish cycling moves every day along with some dork driving too.
    Slowing down the cartillery everywhere and not just on the carterials would help lessen the injury/kill rate – and road design/implied speeds are important as is some enforcement occasionally.
    And speaking of enforcement, it seemed an officer went after a four-wheeler that cut me off on Wed. night – so maybe we can move beyond “To swerve and project”, perhaps to a Euro standard which automatically gives liability to the motorist in any car/bike crash unless it’s really dumb biking.
    It’s a tragedy though.

14. “Carlos > I would argue Crosswalks are better than stoplights. I rarely see anyone run them and I don’t think its a false sense of security. I feel secure enough that I can stop traffic at my will. Can’t do that with a traffic light. Crosswalks are the most powerful thing pedestrians have.”

    I have to agree with Carlos here.

    Why not instead equip crosswalks with pedestrian-activated stoplights? (And they should activate immediately, not 2-3 minutes after the buton is pushed.)

15. Where were all the bikes this morning? I saw fewer than usual on my commute. Perhaps many cyclists are enjoying an extra long weekend at thier parent’s cottage.

16. Or their cottage. The lawyers and other Haliburton land owners ride bikes too.

17. I am just saying the crosswalks need to be updated.

18. Hmm OK. Why don’t they make them with flashing red lights? Turn them into 2 way stops when flashing. Everybody stops for reds except the drunk and a couple other guys on cell phones.

    Anything to avoid a pedestrian activated full traffic light. Keeping cars moving is better than having them idle.

19. My friend, Joe Hendry wonders:
    “What exactly is the speedlimit for driving through a pedestrain crosswalk with a 7 year-old girl in the middle of it?”

    “I thought it was zero.”