Now that the dust has settled from the Great Toronto Tax Debate, this would be a good time to do a little polling. Spacing’s readers were really caught up in this discussion with many of our posts inspiring between 30 to 60 comments that represented a wide range of opinions.
With the return of The Spacing Poll, we pose this question to you: Do you support the City of Toronto’s new taxes? Also, please feel free to leave a comment.
18 comments
I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand it is hard to support any new taxes when the revenue generates is being managed by a bunch of misfits. From paying well over market price for buildings to being oblivious to the poisonous tax climate and its effects on the Toronto job market, it is difficult to trust city hall in any matters. Furthermore, as implemented, if the current shortfall for the 2008 budget is addressed by property tax increases, will they by rescinded for 2009 when the proposed new taxes generate there full income potential? I would wager no, so supporting them is difficult in the current climate.
Under different direction I would support them. While not ideal, neither is property tax. LTT, might be less ‘bad’ than than wholesale reliance on the current system.
The need for the taxes underscores a bigger problem: Toronto’s finances are broken. There’s too many costs to cover, and not enough revenue sources to do it. At some point, the dam is going to burst given you can’t run a city by running to the province every year for a financial hand-out.
The LTT is a regressive tax. The LTT just taxes the working poor who buy and sell houses more often than the established wealthy.
Just raise the property tax across the board and stop making excuses for a badly run city government. While it isn’t perfect, it the property tax mechanism available.
Mind you, I’d feel better about the whole thing if the city was not so poorly managed.
The Sun’s Rob Granatstein wrote a very interesting article on Sunday that talked about recent tax hikes in Chicago and New York that burdened their residents a great deal more than the taxes adopted by Toronto City Council last week.
Do you have a source for the claim that the working poor buy and sell houses more often?
I can understand most working poor who rent move more often, but even without the Land Transfer Tax, buy and selling a home is a very expensive activity. On the other hand, the established wealthy people tend to treat thier house as an tax-free investment, ready to be flipped when the market is right.
I support both taxes but frankly don’t trust the city, they seem to have a knack for making money disappear. I really think the city could be run in a better manor.
The fact that both taxes are so emasculated by exemptions (especially the VRT’s 3 year-old exemption, wtf) is tragic – the new taxes do not go nearly far enough.
Again, the “CIty is badly run” mythology appears with no proof.
There is no three year exemption. Del Grande’s entire package of motions — including the three year exemption — was voted down 29-16.
scott,
What do you call the purchases of 129 Peter St. and Theatre Passe Muraille? What about the 7 years it took for the city to realise that the regions surrounding it were creating hundred’s of thousnad of jobs while the city was losing them? Only to respond by ignoring public consultations and implementing a plan that does to little to late. What do you call the funding of the Project Symphony? Why does the city invest(subsidise) in moving jobs from West Queen West to the Harbour Front and call it job creation?
Crikey, I would hate to see what you consider badly run if this is good.
These guys like Glen always have the answers — wait they don’t, they don’t like stuff, and if they don’t like it, it’s bad management. I wish there was some kind of holodeck where we could send Glen-type-internet-critics to build their perfect government, and test it. Then we can let them show us how the perfect world would be.
Glen : You can point these things out as bad city management but you don’t back them up with any substance (mostly since your sentences run into each other and thus its not clear what or whom you are referring to at times).
I call 129 Peter a good purchase, same with Theatre Passe. Buying property is a good deal for the city simply because prices continue to grow on downtown property. 129 Peter is good since it will house a badly needed shelter until a new one is built in the area.
Theatre Passe is good for the same reason, and on top of that they are fostering culture, etc, which is part of the city’s current mandate. They will be able to re-sell those properties at much higher value than purchased. Operating them is already built into the budget, and for the theatre, it will be run by the theatre company at no cost to the City.
Project Symphony is run by TEDCO, not the city. Though its an agency of the city, it cannot direct it what to do. Council does not have control over it besdies the zoning rules. And in the end, it may not be architectural pleasing, but it will bring life to that area that currently has very little. And best of all, its not taking it away from another part of the city, like Glen attests. Corus is currently in a nondescript building just east of Yonge and Bloor. The area is thriving with or without Corus HQ there.
I don’t know why you think jobs from Queen West are going to Harbourfront: the Queen West is thriving and will continue to thrive even with the condo boom. The galleries will just move west into Parkdale proper, thus creating a more money and culture for an economically depressed part of town.
I hope that answers your questions, Glen, and fulfills my promise to highlight your ignorance from comments you made on other post about Stintz.
Glad I took out a 2 year registration before that little grab became official…and, I think come the next time I have to register my plate again, I think I’ll change my address to the cottage and avoid it completely.
And if they start taxing booze, you can be sure I’ll cross the municipal boundary to buy.
Too bad I can’t do anything about the house. I guess when we sell that money will go into the deep dark pit that is the City too. Ya, I get that other municipalities have higher taxes but they certainly don’t have the density that Toronto has. I’d like to see some analysis on how much tax is raised per household, per house/unit, per acre, etc. etc. on a comparative basis. The fact is, for all the whining that goes on about the City versus the province versus the feds, it’s all one big black pit of spending.
Tell me something, just WHY do we need TWO nice flat screen t.v.’s hanging behind the Planning desk at Scarborough City Hall??????? Go check it out and see what I mean! With a cable connection no less. What a complete waste. At least turn up the damn sound when I’m there. 😉
Ed, your committement to this city is honourable. I do hope it has given you enough happiness, and value (property, health, etc) as you will give it in the future. Happy citizenship!
Allison,
I give up, if you really think that paying ~50% more ($360 v. ~$220) per sq. foot of building space, than the market rate, makes financial sense, what is the point in debating? In my simple world it makes more sense to spend 4.7 million on 21,000 sq. ft. of real estate than the same amount on 13,000 sq. ft. of comparable space. Today we pay today’s prices. Tomorrow we pay tomorrow’s. Only an idiot strays from this simple truth.
I was mistaken about Corus moving jobs from West Queen West. It was from Liberty village. In fact it is approx. 1000 people (200,000 sq. ft.). Facilitated by tax breaks after declaring Liberty village an ‘Employment Area’. While Tedco may operate at an arms length, Project Symphony is being funded by the city. Are you not even curious as to why the Hemson Consulting report on project feasibility is not available for public consumption.
You have failed to highlight any ignorance but your own.
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/toronto/story.html?id=b42cb7c7-9b4c-4dcc-8762-6422952e45cf
Sam, how many flat screen t.v.’s do you have in your house?? I can tell you that my family doesn’t have one. But the City thinks visitors (and City employees) need to have them behind the planning counter? And you think I’m being somehow being unreasonable??!!? Puhlease. Go ahead, bend over and acquiesce. I’m not.
Bet you voted NDP.
I bet if we cut Toronto’s flat screen budget in half we could save at least a hundred mill
Ed, if you detailed further examples of wasteful spending I’d be more inclined to think you have a point and not just a gripe.
These new taxes only cover a small portion of what is needed.There is still an approximately $450 million shortfall.Others taxes will have to be implemented.And all this just to break even. Then there are the new contracts that surely will be around 9% across the board.So unless there are new funds either from developers,property taxes and federal provincial government we are still in trouble.These issues should have been addressed when Miller was first elected but wasn’t.In fact pet projects were in the forefront and drained the city quickly.I would still like to see a comptroller elected the same way new york city has done, at least there would be real accountability to the taxpayer.