Saturday’s headlines

19 comments

1. thanks for the compilations

2. > By many police accounts, the revellers are getting nastier.

   Last I heard (and the numbers reveal) crime in the District was going down since 2005. Are the revellers getting nastier but committing fewer crimes?

   > Mr. Vaughan has declared war on club owners

   I’m glad somebody finally said it.

   The last days of clubland? We won’t go without a fight!

3. This sucks. I hadn’t realized the Queen/Bathurst Home Depot block had been approved. I remember talking to some of the owners of the small shops there, and they mostly felt that they had only a few years left in their stores before the high rents that will come with HD push them out…

4. Clubland is suburban puke land.

   In terms of stores being kicked out because of HD; as somebody who went to high school in the area and lived at 211 Bathurst we are probably on our 5th generation of stores in the area since say about 1980. With King Sol and Mr.Sub gone Dukes is one of the few long term stores left. HD doesnt really compete with the small stores in the area and in fact is probably better for the area than a giant usually empty parking lot. A dense multi-use building, that serves other dense buildings, is far better than a box store, one story high, surrounded by pavement. I think in the end people will walk to to it and love it.

5. Kevin> Again (and as a fan/supporter of culture that is generated by clubland type spaces) you are diminishing whatever popular support there might be for said culture when you do a blanket save-clubland comment like that. There’s a surfeit of bad/awful/worst-of-humanity in clubland, and it isn’t good-clubbing, it isn’t good partying or good techno/house/etc culture. It’s vomit and worse in the streets.

   Refine your criticism or become an irrelevant commentator.

6. It comes down to a simple problem: venue loss.

   Hundreds, or perhaps thousands of people in Toronto are dedicated to a style of music or a musical community so ardently that they spend their time and money putting on nightlife events.

   Much of the Entertainment District provides a lowest common denominator type of night: drunk suburbanites listening to pop remixes and (failing in) picking up strangers. This keeps them out of the other venues, both in the District and elsewhere.

   Whether they realize it or not, even promoters who don’t have events in the District will be hit hard by the nightlife crackdown. Everything from indie rock to top 40’s and hip hop nights will struggle violently for new spaces if the District continues to lose spaces to play music and dance.

   On top of that, Adam Vaughan’s “plan” for music venues in his ward is nothing less than a crackdown on liberty: dancing has been banned in some way or another in countless cities around the world, and this systematic overenforcement coupled with new regulations amounts to exactly that: a ban.

   What Toronto will gain from a sanitized District is a handful of new condo towers. What it will lose is its status as an international destination for nightlife. Most global cities are judged by their bars, clubs and parties, and new nightlife regulations will see an already under-visited Toronto suffer even more irrelevance, totally deserving of the phrase, “Toronto sucks.”

   The pressure to sanitize the district is probably coming from property developers. The “residents,” the KSRA, comprise a tiny portion of the few inhabitants of the District, and many, if not most, moved in knowing the area. However, look across the street from Republik: that club was demolished and now a 30+ story condo is going up in its place.

   The nightlife crackdown is, in part, just another manifestation of the property developers’ aim to acquire land for as cheaply as possible and maximize profit, to the detriment of the city and its inhabitants. Building condos in the District is no different from building Bohemian Embassy in West Queen West. It is also a manifestation of Toronto’s conservative heritage, aiming to quash sin from the city. Those who would dismantle Toronto’s club district are the same people who would have lauded the law that prevented shopping on Sundays or serving alcohol after 1 AM in the 1990’s.

   Just let this tiny, chaotic piece of Toronto survive, I beg of Adam Vaughan, provincial politicians and independent promoters, and we will all benefit. The future of music in Toronto depends on it.

7. As more areas of downtown Toronto are given over to residential uses, the spread of the NIMBY class is an inevitable side-effect. If people move into Clubland, they know where they’re moving…but that’s won’t (and perhaps shouldn’t) prevent them from trying to improve their living situation after they’ve taken up residence.

   We could look at the blah-blah societal issues that are forcing suburban kids into the core on weekends to drink and fight. Some of those issues might be cultural and even racial…but fuck touching that live wire, let’s blame the cops.

   I’d love to see some metrics on the level of disturbances in the Club District back when the cops were getting kickbacks from the club owners vs. today. Remember that big scandal? In the years since that broke, hasn’t the police presence in the district increased dramatically? Maybe those cops had something by recognizing that slimy club owners cooperate best with slimy cops.

   All this is useless Sunday morning blather anyway. Until someone addresses those nasty social issues that are promoting dramatic intoxication and violence or “havin’ a good time” the district’s only going to get worse…and then it’ll be gone.

8. Moswt of the folks who are part of resident associations have lived in the area for a longer period of time than most of the clubs. The new folks moving in know they are moving to a vibrant neighbourhood but also have as much right to complain. Its democracy.

   Secondly, people have to obey laws/bylaws wherever they go — that means noise, etc. And Clubs need to do that too — respect your neighbours and they will respect. I know if we went to Mississauga or Woodbridge and pumped up our music and puked on their main drag they’d have an issue with it too.

   The loss of venue is the lamest argument to make, Kevin.

   When the EL Mo shut down a few years ago all the indie rockers went ape shit. You know what happened? Someone saw an opportunity to open their own club elsewhere to fill that void. THE CITY IS ORGANIC. In a city as “rich” as Toronto, clubs move around, shut down, open up, and often fill the void left by the previous clubs or promoters. Things flow.

   Having Vaughan advocate for less clubs and better planning is smart, not soul destroying as Bracken suggests. Not concentrating clubs in one district is good for the rest of the city as it will begin to spread out some of the bullshit we experience in Clubland. King west, College St, the Village, Annex, and soon Leslieville and Corktown and Cabbagetown will have their own venues. Its called the maturation of the city.

   Everything else Kevin says about “a manifestation of Toronto’s conservative heritage, aiming to quash sin from the city” and “The future of music in Toronto depends on it” sounds like someone who has absolutely no sense of history in Toronto, no sense of how a city develops, and someone who thinks the only people who visit a city are under 25 and want to drink and part. Kevin sounds like a Clubland ideologue. Any loss of a club is somehow a disaster.

   Keep throwing streetcar parties and stay out city policy since you seem to have no grasp on it whatsoever.

9. > sounds like someone who has absolutely no sense of history in Toronto

   It’s interesting you mention the past, actually. There was a time when Toronto was the rave capital of North America, with events peaking in the 15,000-person range at Liquid Adrenaline parties at the Ex. What happened?

   At the turn of the millenium, the concentrated efforts of a small group of politicians, police and concerned (or conservative) citizens brought about the slow, painful demise of this thriving youth culture through overregulation, which led to massive venue loss. The scene was able to partially recover through the iDance rallies and the support of certain politicians like Olivia Chow, whom I wish was still in Ward 20.

   Ask anybody (or check out the Facebook group called “I Raved in Toronto anytime between 1995-2003”) and they will tell you this sad story of how Toronto lost its status as a rave mecca. It didn’t have to be this way, and it is not hard to see the parallels between the rave crackdown and the club crackdown. History may repeat itself if this overenforcement is allowed to continue, and Toronto could lose its status as a club mecca too, with a few notable exceptions.

   > clubs move around, shut down, open up, and often fill the void left by the previous clubs or promoters

   Places that are opening up further west like The Social and Wrongbar are great, but what is to say the club crackdown won’t affect venues outside the District? Especially because people actually live there.

   Those two bars are also fairly small, which leads me to a point that I admittedly stress too often: the experience of other cities, particularly New York, shows what kind of future Toronto’s nightlife has if this crackdown isn’t stopped: all dance music will be confined to small bars, strictly monitored by police (perhaps by CCTV), and people will say, “Nightlife in Toronto sucks because of Adam Vaughan” just like they say “Nightlife in New York sucks because of Giuliani” now. That’s not the future I want for Toronto, and it is astounding that so many people do.

10. Kevin…I’m sorry, man…you’ve simply got it wrong. You know why raves died? Because they stopped being cool. The age of the 15,000 person BLC raves or the 25,000 person Freakin’ raves weren’t the pinnacle of the scene…they were the end. They signaled the massively commercialization and mainstream acceptance of the “scene” and when that happened the people who helped found the scene moved on to something new.

    Scenes die, man. That’s why we don’t go to sock hops anymore.

    Regulation can’t kill a popular scene, but an obvious need for regulation can kill one dead in a flash. Are the lawmakers to blame for noticing that people are being shot and stabbed in the streets of the Club District? Or, is the scene to blame for letting itself get too drug fueled, to narrow and too violent.

    If the Clubland wants to survive it’ll adapt to new realities. The police are watching more closely, the neighbours need to be respected and kids have to stop dying. Kids have to stop dying! Kids have to stop fuckin’ dying!!

    If the club owner intend to run their businesses while turning a blind eye to what’s going on outside their doors and the club kids are still shootin’, then how can you seriously blame the death of Clubland on Adam Vaughan?

11. PS actually Olivia Chow supports Adam Vaughans efforts!

12. Kevin, Josh posted a lot of what I was going to say. Scenes change. The facebook group you linked to is primarily a “remember when” nostalgia group, made of a lot of people in their 30s who don’t party anymore because that part of their life has passed by and they’re happier going to a bar these days, or staying home and watching PVR, or having babies, or etc.

    The halcyon days of massive 1990s parties were at the 20-something peak of the demographic bubble made up of babyboomer offspring, and they’re all older now. Even if all the space in Toronto was freed up, the scene would not and could not exist like it did.

    Let’s use the example of Detroit — there used to be massive parties in abandoned factories or warehouses that we would go to circa 1993-8. In Detroit, there was no influx of condo residents or etc — in fact, there is more room now for parties than 10 years ago — but the scene doesn’t exist like it once did, yet there is nothing stopping it from happening.

    You’ve actually got an extremely conservative view of how the social life of cities exists and evolves, coupled with some overt nostalgia. You might as well say “why don’t we go to Nirvana and Pulp concerts anymore.”

    Places to dance and space for vibrant scenes are extremely important for cities — but you’re way, way off on this and supporting the worst of human behavior.

13. Shawn, you have said this a number of times, but I definitely don’t support the behavior of the rowdy few (who, again, are decreasing in number – crime in the District is on the decline) and I never have. I certainly support enforcing laws against assault, harassment and noise violations, but not shutting down the whole Entertainment District by making it impossible to be a nightclub operator, or making it impossible to be a nightclub patron and still maintain some level of comfort (the National Post article seemed shocked that more clubs hadn’t installed metal detectors. gimmeabreak) and privacy from police cameras. And, can you believe council is seriously considering banning bottle service?

    I have already outlined some of my solutions for decreasing crime in the Club District, but like I have said before, Adam Vaughan seems to think the problem is the very existence of the clubs themselves and is not even trying to think of creative solutions, just ban, ban, ban. How’s that for ideological?

    The first and most important thing we should do to reduce clubland violence is dramatically extend or completely eliminate last call. Everybody knows that last call is the reason there are so many drunk people on the streets at once “looking for trouble.” Another option is graduated last call, offering the ability to serve until 4 as an incentive to be a good club operator. Many clubs and bars served until 4 during Nuit Blanche and TIFF and guess what, the city didn’t burn to the ground. The City now has this authority.

    Public washrooms are an obvious answer to bodily fluids in the street, I can’t believe it’s taking this long to build them.

    Make sure all new condos and all new clubs in the area are properly soundproofed.

    Certain frequencies of pulsing lights are shown to reduce violence in European public squares, which are often lined with bars and discos. The Distillery has some of these, actually, although not for this purpose exactly.

    Anti-violence outreach – yes, this has actually worked in other places.

    Why don’t more people apply their minds and voices to finding a way to preserve the positive dance music culture and eschew the negative aspects of the area? Why is our first reaction a conservative one, “get rid of the clubs,” and not something more progressive?

14. The problems in clubland are exacerbated by the fact that city bylaws make it virtually impossible to open new club spaces in any other part of the city.

    If Vaughan et al. want to relieve pressure in clubland, they will have to work to relax strictures elsewhere.

15. These threads that start off the daily headlines posts are always my favorite. Another big thanks to Monika for the headlines back.

    To Kevin…Is it possible that the Club District has simply become too large for the area it inhabits and is in need of pruning?

    For a supplementary; as old clubs close, wouldn’t a ban on new clubs help whittle down the district into a more manageable size?

    All of us, whether we’re in favour of clubs or not, are going to have to be honest and admit that the neighbourhood is changing…fast. The club owners who recognize that they now inhabit a burgeoning residential area and adapt accordingy will stay in business; the ones that don’t will close and may not be replaced. That’s just the market sorting things out the way it always does…regulations or no.

    To Adam Vaughan (not that I think he reads this forum): Don’t take after Mayor Dave and think that an intransigent attitude on any issue is going to score you points in this city. A person like yourself that appears to be intelligent should know better than to try to position themselves as the heavy. You look like a posturing douchebag when you should be filling that roll of smart defender of the people like you did during the budget shit. You aren’t Howard Moscoe…please don’t try to be.

16. > Is it possible that the Club District has simply become too large for the area it inhabits and is in need of pruning?

    It’s funny that when Adam was incessantly rattling off his “sponge is full” metaphor, he was using a map published by the KSRA that showed 88 clubs in the District – *22* of which were closed at the time.

    Whether he knew this or not, he was acting like he didn’t, and he kept using old numbers, saying that between 50-60,000 people were in the District on the average weekend. (Yeah, Adam, in 2004.)

    Then one day on CBC, I heard him tack another 10,000 on and say there were SEVENTY thousand people in the Entertainment District on a weekend. What it is, Adam?

    Maybe the sponge isn’t full anymore. Maybe they could just forget about this campaign and move on to the next one. The problems of Clubland are getting better, but we could be doing more to prevent it like I said above, eliminating last call and installing public washrooms. I am in the District every single weekend with my female and gay friends and I still don’t see the “problems” the media, politicians and police claim exist.

17. How about opening a ton more wretched-music clubs in the 905? And maybe build a big wall along the city limits too that starts restricting traffic in at dinner time on Friday, I’d be okay with that.

18. No last call will only make things worse. That’s exactly what the ‘hood needs: drunks being loud and awful at 4 and 5 in the morning not just 1 or 2 or 3 am!

    On a given night it can be anywhere from 10,000 (in the winter when its cold) and 70,000 (in the early summer weekends). I have heard Vaughan indicate the variable numbers of people. Maybe Kevin has ringing in his ears from standing too close to speakers at Circa.

19. According to the article one of the neighbourhood residents says, “Our neighbourhood is trashed by people who have no vested interest in the community…”

    I think that’s a huge part of the problem. Most of the partiers don’t even live in the GTA, nevermind the neighbourhood they get drunk in and trash. There’s no respect for the community. They all get to board the bus back to whatever suburb they came in from when they’ve had enough of puking in our streets and stabbing each other.

    The clubs obviously don’t care about the community either, apparently. If they did there would be more self-policing and more of an effort on their parts to clean things up. It’s in their interest afterall not to aggravate the neighbours or the police.