Some of our readers will have already read my post from early this morning (around 2am) when Spacing got word that the TTC’s GPS tracking system had a “live” web feed (still in beta testing mode) to let riders know the next arrival time of a streetcar.
But Spacing received word from the TTC this afternoon that Next Bus, the company providing the GPS tracker, is going to disable the arrival time feeds for all routes except for the Spadina 510 and the Harbourfront 509 streetcars. The TTC said all other routes are not GPS-to-web enabled. Next Bus is only providing estimated times on the other routes since the info is being pulled from the schedule and not the location of the nearest streetcar. The TTC said Next Bus does not want to provide information to the public that is not yet reliable. Give them credit, though, for not disabling the entire feed and allowing the public to “experiment” with the accurate info from the 509 and 510 routes.
For those of us who were using the Next Bus web site this morning and finding it to be accurate: it seems we were slightly fooled. It just meant that the TTC streetcars were running on time according to their schedule. Which, unto itself, is refreshing.
21 comments
All other routes already removed
This still sounds odd.
How can it be that the information reported was based on schedule when the times were wildly varying from the timetable?
Queen cars are not scheduled 25 minutes, then 5 minutes, then 15 minutes apart. They come every 6.5 minutes (or whatever, depending on time of day).
Seems more likely that it has been pulled because the data is limited by cars which don’t have GPS yet and/or the data is based on the current CIS system which can give wildly inaccurate info due to the method of locating cars?
I saw several comments that argued the other routes’ displays had to be “live” because they showed gaps and bunches of streetcars that matched what was on the street. So if the displays for the 501, 506, etc. were just a visualization of schedule data, does that mean gapping and bunching is built right into the schedule? Hmmm.
With respect to Matthew Blackett, he’s either got it wrong or the TTC and/or Nextbus is misrepresenting the facts. The data on 501 was live before noon this morning. I mentioned this elsewhere and here’s why I think this: The system predicted the arrival of two streetcars ONE MINUTE apart followed by a gap of about 25 (!) minutes until the next streetcar–and that is precisely what happened. Same kind of thing in the other direction–gaps and bunches in the data that corresponded EXACTLY to the behaviour of the streetcars. If this is “just schedule data”, then chimpanzees are devising the schedules.
Can you tell I have too much time on my hands?
Robert: I wrote what I was told by TTC. But I suspect that because not all streetcars on the non- 509 and 510 routes have Gps, next bus does not want to publicize inaccurate info. The patterns as you state show the 501 etc are pulling GPS info.
NextBus isn’t referenced anywhere on the TTC website, which suggests to me this was a test that was leaked somehow.
If so, this is probably how the TTC is saving face — by pulling the routes other than 509 and 510 (which it is already posting at Union/Spadina stations) and claiming that it’s based on schedule info like the website. And they’re assuming that people will not have been anal enough to do a cross-check in the 12 or 18 hours or so that those routes were shown.
Aren’t all TTC vehicles GPS-equipped? Isn’t that how they run the automated stop announcements? Those definitely aren’t CIS-related (e.g., I was on the Woodbine South bus this morning — it had to divert due to a collision and it was calling out the stops along the diversion).
Hmm. I thought the automated route announcements were enabled by GPS devices? Wouldn’t this mean all streetcars and buses are perfectly enabled? Can somebody correct me?
I would like the TTC to square claims some have made that the new GPS-enabled 501 allows for better line management if, in fact, things are still so unreliable that they can’t show the data on NextBus.
TTC and NextBus need to get their stories straight.
Just because the buses/streetcars have GPSes doesn’t mean they have the equipment to transmit that in real time back to a central server. For example, all the buses here in Victoria, BC have GPSes, but afaik, that information is not transmitted wirelessly.
Interesting picture angle for this story. I’m guessing you had to get a streetcar that had just been cleaned at the carhouse to make it turn out.
I looked at this last night after first hearing about it.
There was a predicted 58 minute gap WB College at Ossington. The 506 is “Frequent service” at the time I checked.
It’s probably (hopefully – this is the ttc after all… ) an artefact of non-GPS equipped cars but certainly it wasn’t just reading it off a schedule.
…Or the TTC realized that they are not ready to explain why the headways are all over the map, and what they plan to do about it before/when the new streetcars are launched. Someone writing the cheque might wonder if their expensive new streetcars will continue to be stuck in traffic.
This was never supposed to be public. A member of the CPTDB, a forum for discussing public transit in Canada, found the site.
You may be amused to know that people inside the TTC were watching this site with interest thinking that it was at least vaguely accurate.
What annoys me now more than anything is the inconsistency between explanations for why it’s not up on other routes, and the public claims that have been made for the system already.
The 510 and 509 routes are flooded with streetcars. I walk to work from Niagara and Queen. I’ll get to Spadina, about 10 minutes or so and not be passed by any eastbound 501 cars. Yet, when I look up and down Spadina, I can usually see up to eight streetcars (even more sometimes), all pretty well empty, along the 510 route. As well, the 509 has way, way more streetcars than the ridership calls for. So, no wonder the TTC wants to only showcase these routes on their GPS tracker system, they have good service as opposed to the abysmal service on the east/west routes.
I’m beginning to think that this is all political. Both Spadina and Harbourfront have dedicated streetcar lanes. The TTC floods the route with streetcars, gives good service, and then the city (the mayor and his cohorts)uses it as an excuse to impose the dedicated lanes elsewhere, whether communities want them or not.
When I looked at the site yesterday, the eastbound 501 at Niagara showed coming cars at one minute, 30 minutes and then 50 minutes! In my experience with the route, normal.
It seems to me that they could easily remove a number of cars off the 510 and 509 routes, still provide acceptable service and improve the east/west routes that carry way more people.
MattB,
With more condos springing up on Spadina south of King and on Fleet Street (west of Bathurst), it makes sense for the TTC to put an adequate number of streetcars on the 509 and 510. Before the TTC improved service on the 509 last year (they added one car to both peak periods), there were a lot of complaints from riders who take the 509 on a regular basis. The main complaint is that the cars are often packed (especially during peak periods). But now, the situation has improved greatly. However, once the rest of the condos on Fleet are completed in the next few years, there will be more riders and more pressure to add service on the 509. The Harbourfront is truly a fast growing area and the growth will get even larger in the next few years.
As for the 510, the TTC should try to send all cars to Union station, instead of short-turning them at King or at the Queens Quay/Spadina loop. In the last few months, I have noticed long lineups of riders at the southbound stop at Bremner Blvd waiting for a 510 Union car (a lot of them were short-turning at Queeens Quay/Spadina).
People need to realize that GPS devices are only equipped to RECEIVE information about where they are. Without additional equipment, they don’t transmit anything. Much like a radio tuner in your car will receive radio signals, but doesn’t tell the radio station that you’re listening.
So it’s possible for all vehicles to be equipped with GPS devices for calling out stops, and for that relatively basic equipment to be able to call out stops on a detour (just like your in-car GPS device can call out your route turn-by-turn). But that still doesn’t make it equipped to transmit that data to a central server without significant additional IT infrastructure.
The Next Bus site is now showing that the TTC agency no longer exists. Interesting. Data for the 509 and 510 lines are no longer up. However, around 3:30 this afternoon it was showing a large 15 minute gap on the 509 (one car missing; there are supposed to be 5 cars. Next Bus only showed four). Hopefully the missing car is indeed on the 509 this afternoon and it’s only a case of simply not having a GPS unit.
Edit to my above post. Next Bus is up and running again. Probably a small glitch.
Corey and Asher: Thanks.
Viva in York Region has had the service on their rapid transit vehicles for a while now. That is how they can provide to the minute signage of when the next bus is going to arrive.
However, Viva continues to expand creating vivaNext and there is also a poll to see if people support the Yonge subway extension.
I don’t know if you’ve seen it yet, but the chief communications guy for the corporation planning the subway extensions into York Region has just created a blog. While I work for this company, I am also a York Region resident and deeply concerned about the increasing gridlock and need for enhanced transit.
Go to vivanext.com/blog and tell him your thoughts or respond to his posts – and don’t forget to vote!