Lawbreakers? Photo by Karu-san
Watch out, Montrealers: if you sit anywhere in a park other than on a park bench, you could be risking a $628 fine. At least, that’s what it seems after Brendan Colin Jones, a 25-year-old Concordia student, was fined for sitting on a marble ledge in Émilie Gamelin Park (also known as Berri Square). Jones’ official citation is for “using urban equipment for uses other than those intended,” which seems particularly absurd considering that the park’s ledges are designed to be sat on, and there are almost always dozens of people making use of them.
So why weren’t any of the other people who were soaking up the spring sun slapped with a $628? According to the Gazette, Jones appears to have been targeted because, while he was sitting in the park, he snapped some photos of several police officers confronting a group of people who had been drinking alcohol. When the officers noticed that he had been taking photos, they asked him for his camera. When he refused, they told him that it was not allowed to sit on the park ledge. Jones didn’t move, so the police officers demanded to see his identification and then issued the ticket.
This is alarming because it seems to suggest that police officers can use their powers to arbitarily punish anyone they don’t like. I think most Montrealers would agree that Jones was doing nothing wrong: the very design of Berri Square encourages people to sit on the ledges. “A successful public space develops conviviality, use, social interaction, and obviously sitting around is basic,” architect Gavin Affleck told the Gazette. “Trying to eliminate that from a public space is completely opposite to its whole intention.”
So far, the only comment from Ville-Marie borough has been to say that, as long as people sit in the park “in respect of the bylaw,” there should be no problems. But if the by-laws are so vague as to allow police to fine people for sitting on something designed to be sat on, what then?
36 comments
This is certainly an abuse of power by police who were probably bored to tears and needed some “action” to fill the day.
It seems to be a habit of Quebec police to redefine the situation to their benefit and want to exert influence and power to spice up their otherwise dull lives.
Lunacy! This is absolutely one of the best public squares in town and a fairly new one (I believe established by the Dore Admin if I am not mistaken); its design is brilliant in that you can sit just about anywhere and the slope is intended to create a natural seating plan for outdoor shows etc…
This is clearly not an issue of sitting on the slab / in violation of a by-law but one of police abuse of power.
What a stupid bylaw!
There seems to be a widespread police crackdown on spring happening in the city. This is the fourth or fifth incident I’ve heard of this week, of police issuing tickets to halt behaviours that hurt no one, seemingly just to demonstrate that they can.
Émilie Gamelin is the best public square in town?! I’d say it’s functional, but hardly brilliant — just look at its state and you know there are some serious design flaws. The slope is nice, but all that grass? It just cannot handle the amount of traffic and is worn down to earth in so many places, including around those tombstones where people sit; the trees surrounding the edges used to have underbrush, but again, too many people — perhaps some prickly bushes could have kept it green. The “art” on the south-east corner (yes, that green fence-like thing around some bushes is art) merely collects garbage. The huge flowerbeds are pretty, but hardly used for sitting given their peculiar height — too high on one end, at grade level on the other. Being at grade level means the flowers are crushed an awful lot: if you cross at night north-to-south for example, it’s pretty dark and you really do have to pay attention which when you’re drunk is harder to do (not that I’m speaking from experience :). The 2-storey entrance to the métro is rather imposing and rather weird — what’s the 2nd storey for, anyway? The trees along Ste-Catherine are nice indeed and invite users off the sidewalk; unfortunately, the opposite is true along de Maisonneuve, where ledges and stairs dissuade.
I think you just have to compare the new Place Riopelle or Square Victoria, or even Place Philips or my favourite, Square St-Louis, to understand how good park design can handle tons of people and still remain good looking for a long, long time…
It is a good square because it is used so much. Sure, it is a product of UQAM being right there but still, a good public square is one that is used frequently. (I do agree about the Metro station – why so big?)
I’ve seen the cops harassing people for no reason at Carré St. Louis many times. You’ll always find cops there handing out tickets on the most beautiful spring and summer days. Head indoors to the metro and you’ll see some racial profiling. Zip downtown and you’ll see cops on street corners, lining the city’s pockets with jaywalking tickets. The cops are no better than tax collectors. They’ve done nothing about the city’s real problems. Gangs, drugs harder than weed, and the completely out of control graffiti situation. They’re supposed to serve and protect but it’s really more of a ticket and harass paradigm.
this is a typical reaction of the cops. they had no right to demand his camera. if they were on the acting on the up and up, that is. so they punished the guy with a bogus citation and some brain dead municipal judge finds him guilty? in Montreal!!!!!
happens all the time.
and not just in Montreal, cops no where can stomach public scrutiny.
And people wonder why I stay out of Quebec!
Happened to me a few years back. Cops demanded a videotape I had been filming on and even gave me a receipt. When I arrived at the station to collect my tape they said they had no intention of giving it back me.
I was told to “file a complaint if you want, it won’t amount to much.”
Actually, I live in the Latin Quarter and I’ve seen lots and lots of cops doing lots of things, too. I’d say they’re generally very good, very patient, and treat people like human beings — I’ve seen them not inflame a situation but do the opposite and keep their cool while being shouted verbal abuse at. So my personal experience goes against what I had grown up with, which was very anti-cop. Sure, they like to pick on those who look different, but not always — I’ve seen bike cops ride leisurely by a group of punks smoking pot and not do a thing about it, for example.
As for gangs, drugs and completely out-of-control graffiti — hmm. All are urban problems, and I must say Montreal seems pretty tame compared to some other cities I’ve been to. My thoughts:
Gangs aren’t 100% evil — they do provide structure and a sense of belonging for young men desperate for it, and although they have nasty illegal activities and violence, there is something to be said about keeping the violence between gangs rather than having it directed aimlessly at strangers.
I certainly see how drugs can ruin lives with the homeless druggies around my neighbourhood — it’s not pretty to look at, and even less so when you get to know the people and hear how little control they seem to have over their lives. But I’ve seen lots of people do lots of drugs with no real problems, so obviously it’s not just the drugs, but a combination of things that ruins lives.
As for graffiti: I’ve learned to not hate it, although it goes against my aesthetic values and my sense of civic duty. I try to look beyond the destructive hate to see it as a quest for identity and a desire to make a mark in a seemingly indifferent world. While I’d prefer less of it and more arty type rather than tags, I also didn’t think it was a good idea for me to walk around and get angry each time I saw some…
This is ridiculous, but I’m not surprised, illogical cop actions have definitely been on the rise for the past couple of years. Personally I have been the victim and witness to many absurd actions by the wonder Police force of Montreal.
My encounters range from seeing a cop cruisers doing burn-outs and doughnuts in parking lots at night, to being pull over for no apparent reason, then having my car rammed in from the back by a cop car, the cops involved were high on pot. In another one I was followed home after receiving a parking ticket, than detained in handcuffs without being told why, than let go and not issued a ticket or an explanation. The only reason that could explain the actions of the cops for that was jealously and to feel the need to exhibit their “high” authority. And please note that I don’t look like a thug or someone who would be a potential criminal, far from it even.
The problem is the recruiting and training, and the lack of real punishment for their actions. Most people don’t have the financial means to fight this clear injustice, and they are well aware of this fact. If you got the time to sue them do it! It’s the only way they’ll back down on their fascist ways.
And even if you do win a settlement, the cops involved will probably get a max of one month of paid leave, which is basically like a paid vacation to reward them for their actions.
Do you guys live in a police state?
OINK OINK OINK
What do you suppose the donuts were doing to the drunks?
LOL. Maybe the cops were taking the drunks’ booze and this kid caught them on camera…
Wouldn’t be the first time cops bully people on Montreal Streets.
this was all about punishing this young fellow because he dared to photograph the police. I’m surprised he didnt get tasered
Yet another reason why I moved out of Quebec.
This is happening all over Canada. The reason is that police forces are desperately short of new people (I heard the RCMP need 4000 new recruits) and they are hiring goons. It’s very serious. People are getting hurt.
I used to live in NDG, right across from the police station. The things I saw were not OK. The cops in NDG used to harass blacks terribly. My neigbour was black and they would pull him over at least twice a week “for routine” and cause him to be late for work. Eventually causing him to lose his job. We were both so disgusted we both moved to Ottawa. eleven years later, and not once has he been pulled over. I (being white) was never pulled over.
@Canuck
I agree, I have been reading more and more stories about abuse of power. Since there is a shortage the cities have to lower their standards. This is resulting with forces that don’t have the judgement or the mettle to be a law enforcement officer.
Law Enforcement should have our resepect, however respect may have been a given in the past but in light of all of the recent events I think that Law Enforcement has to re-earn our respect.
C’mon folks. Is anyone surprised by this? Those of you who seem to think this is an issue only in Quebec, you are sadly mistaken. Individual freedoms in Canada are disappearing at an alarming rate. Police and government lackeys are able to abuse their power in almost any way they choose. If someone chooses to argue, they are fined, harassed, arrested or any combination of the three.
Realistically, we can’t complain about anything in this insane “model for human rights”. If we do, we will be faced with the various dreaded human rights commissions, who can, at will, do just about anything they want to us with no fear of reprimand.
We’d better start waking up. Orwell is laughing…
I used to live in an apartment Buffalo, New York. I would walk to work everyday, three blocks from where I lived (I was 18 at the time). Every morning in the summer there would be two police officers patrolling my street and every morning they would whistle at me and make degrading remarks (sexual remarks). I would be dressed in shorts with a baseball cap on and minding my own business. It got to the point that when I saw them coming towards me I would cross the street and try to avoid them. I was so afraid of them because I have heard the stories of the abuse of power and how they can basically get away with anything and everything. I thought about calling the Buffalo Police Department and complaining, but I know that often times that just leads to more harassment, plus I knew that my young age didn’t help my case. Sometimes I would ask my neighbor to wake up early and walk me to work so that I wouldn’t have to pass them alone.
I can’t even begin to name all of the situations I have been in with police officers and others (including border control into Canada) abusing their power. We are law abiding citizens and deserve to be treated like such. No one should be above the law and no one should have that much power that they can go unchecked.
The entire province of Quebec is going down the toilet due to government corruption from the dirty cops to dirty politicians. The guy is lucky he only got a fine given the typical violent behavior of the police here.
This is pure crazyness. When the public bans together to stop such crap as this, they will lose their power. One of these days people, were all gonna have to dismantle our governments, they will force our hands. In fact, they already are. When the people of the world finally grow tired of tyranny, they will ban together to stop it. Untill then, DONT complain, just talk to others who feel the same, an wait for a time to take back whats ours, LIFE!
Exactly James, less than a month ago some friends and I were celebrating a birthday in a Verdun venue, soon to be shut down by the cops. Basically, when the cops showed up, evryone from the party went out to confront them. The policemen said that they were going to ticket the owners and tried to handcuff a few people, and they planned to do so until we reminded them that 2 officers cannot take action on more than 10 people, that by law they were required to call for backup assisstance before proceding. By the time backup arrived, we had all left off to a new destination, no one was arrested or ticketed. Moral of the story: know your rights and have people there to back you up and you won’t get harassed. It pays to know obscure rules, cops always take advantage of the situation if they know more than you, impose fear upon you or catch you off guard.
To deal with cops harassement free you must know your rights and know police force tactics, this makes their special training useless. Secondly, have people there (unfortunately, not always possible) not just to physically outnumber the officer if they decide to deal with you in unprofessional ways but as witnesses too.
Yet another story related to the abuse of power. It makes one question just how free freedom really is. What ever happened to serve and protect anyway?
….and i thought the police in the US abused their powers at times…. this is really mind blowing.
“This is alarming because it seems to suggest that police officers can use their powers to arbitarily punish anyone they don’t like.”
The most alarming thing is the amount of people who haven’t realised this yet.
This is, unfortunately, becoming too common.
In Britain recently ( a week or 2 ago) legislation was passed that could have anyone who photographs a police office *in public, doing his or her duties*, arrested under terrorism law. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7892273.stm
Is this the intent? No. But it is too open to interpretation and, as the item here shows, too open to abuse. In the USA, you also need to be careful. http://www.tricities.com/tri/news/local/article/man_arrested_for_unlawful_photography/11576/P50/
Or perhaps some courageous people need to not be careful, and court arrest.
the judge should fine the policeman that issued the ticket for abuse of power. if the judge does not then we should all contribute to his oposition in the next election.
The guy was being a smartass. If he fails to comply with the demands of the cops, it’s his own fault. How easily could this entire situation have been averted had he simply agreed to move from the ledge.
“This is alarming because it seems to suggest that police officers can use their powers to arbitarily punish anyone they don’t like.”
Is that really so out of the ordinary?
So, being a smartass is now a ticketable offense? If so, I’d say being a jackbooted thug is a killable offense.
funny i came to montreal to live and i was walkn to get something at the iga. when i see a friend i have not seen for like 20 years so i sit down to talk yes the cops see me but i took like 25mins to come talk to me and with more of them 5 in all like wow ok (by the way i have tattoos)1st thing who are you where you come from why your here have you been in jail do we have you on record so like what the hell no 0ne cant sit and talk to old friends with out the law comen down there backs wow the hell with this im moven back to t.o and maken sure no one i know comes here
The situation in Montreal is getting to be absolutely ridiculous, to say the least. The pinacle being the poor woman who was fined, cuffed and thrown into a small cell for NOT HOLDING THE HANDRAIL AT A SUBWAY STATION. There is a limit to this type of thing, and passing a law which fines a person a sum of 100$ upon neglecting to grab onto a handrail, not to mention being cuffed and brutalized upon refusal to comlpy with such absurdity, is repulsive, to be kind.
what happens if a canadian who lives in another province does not pay one of these fines – my son was just charged the astronomical sum of $144 for having an open beer bottle within the metro station (just going down the stairs & about to finish it & put it in a garbage can ) okay iknow he shouldnt have had alcohol in a public place but wouldn’t a warning have sufficed given that he was about to throw it away & given that he was a young man taking public transportion, rather than driving, while under the influence if alcohol?
so what would happen if he didnt pay i wonder? & how does one find out what the actual fine rates are for these crimes?
i am sooo soooo pissed.