In late February, when the much beloved police horse Brigadier was killed by a hit-and-run driver, I posted a bit of rant about my feelings towards cops on horses. I think it is cruel treatment for horses to be put into dangerous situations. I can certainly live with them in parades and at ceremonial functions, but putting them on the front line is ridiculous. If you love animals that much, take them off the road and out of duty so they can frolic in the fields instead of trotting through heavily polluted traffic. Get the police on to bikes.
This leads me to the other complaint I had during the original post — horse shit on the road. I rode my bike across Queen Street today, from Parkdale to Cabbagetown, and counted nine large piles of horse dung in the path of any eastbound cyclist. Twice I had to come to a complete stop to avoid the the horse crap becuz I was squeezed on my left side by car traffic and on my right side by parked vehicles ( I nearly caused a bike pile-up but was releived to hear other riders complaining about the poop, too). My only other options were dangerous: ride through the pile and risk sliding around, or swerve into moving traffic. A few other times I had enough room to ride around the piles, but it really makes me wonder why our cop horses do not have diapers on them [the name of one brand available is called the Bun Bag]. I cannot see any real argument to support cops riding horses in rush hour along Queen, one of the most congested streets downtown, while leaving behind random piles of manure. We have by-laws that force dog owners to poop-and-scoop. Why are the police treated differently? I can only imagine what people would say if they watched a dog owner let his dog crap in the middle of the sidewalk near Queen and Spadina. Why is the road any different?
There are many reason to have cops on horses for non-front line duty, but why not do what they do in Central Park and around Buckingham Palace and put diapers on the beasts — it ensures a safer ride for cyclists, the manure can be used for composting, and it improves the air quality of the immediate vicinity. It helps everyone in this situation.
I’m interested to hear other people’s opinions and experiences with horse droppings on the road.
35 comments
I completely agree on this although it is fun to see the horses its sad that they have to trek through the jungle with the rest of us. Also thier needs to be alot more cops on bikes there are way too many in cars and in places that are actually conducive to biking like the beach etc.
The difference between a private citizen letting his dog shit on the sidewalk and a cop letting a horse shit on the street is that they are cops, and they don’t have to abide by laws. This was reinforced recently when I joked to a cop about not leaving his car empty and idling in warm weather while he was not using it for an extended period (while investigating a car accident near Trinity Bellwoods) and he screamed at me that he doesn’t have to obey the law and to “shut the fuck up”.
I always said that if I became a councillor, the first action I would take is too make it mandatory for police officers to poop and scoop, what a site that would be.
I don’t mind the police horses (and in certain situations find that they are a much better choice than bikes).
Though I believe it’s time to have them clean up after their horses. If Vienna, with it’s incredibly politically connected network of Fiaker (carraige) drivers, can force the horses to wear poop bags, then Toronto can do the same.
And get ridden patrols off of the main roads at rushhour – I was on the Bay Street bus at 515pm and we had to detour around a couple mounted cops near College trotting in the right lane.
While I agree with all of the above, what’s needed more than comments and complaining is action. Why not drive around town, collect a big pile of the stuff and dump it all in front of one of the police stations? If you want real public debate, a stunt like that would definitely make the papers… maybe even the upcoming election 😉
[this is more a comment about the linked previous article than this article]
The mindset of the article (that horses should no longer be used in frontline police patrols) is all wrong to me. In fact I’d welcome the *reverse* — if all patrolling police officers were on horseback, and NOT in cars.
Maybe I’ve seen too many Critical Mass rides, but I just don’t buy complaints about non-car use of the roads causing ‘congestion’. Hey, we ARE the traffic…
Whether mounted vs. foot patrols are more intimidating is a matter of interpretation and context. Just follow any pair of mounted officers (avoiding the poop of course!!) clopping down a street and watch what peoples’ reactions are like — kids wave, folks say hi to the officers, etc. The horses provide an invitation to interaction with the police, for many people.
Having said that, I do agree that some sort of poop and scoop behavior should be regulated. You think biking through the stuff is ugly, try longboarding! Swoosh.
Okay, Daniel, if you want to scoop the poop, I’ll drive the car! Sound fair?
Let’s get this straight: you breathe the stuff that comes out the back of cars without complaint, but you don’t want to step in the stuff that comes out the back of horses? When did your lungs get tougher than the soles of your shoes? As the scriptwriters of Norma Rae put it: “It’s only grass and water.”
This brings us to the other question. We “poop and scoop” after dogs, partly because the turds of carnivores have a more offensive smell and pose a worse health hazard that waste from vegitarian animals. Should police offices “stoop and scoop” after their horses? I don’t honestly see the need, given the relatively small number of police horses in this city. At worst, think of it as a small bonus from the city: free fertiliser delivered right to your urban garden.
John> Please read the actual post before commenting. See the bike lane? See the danger to cyclists? Where is the urban garden you are talking about? Please don’t give the internet a bad name by posting red herrings.
Simple solution:
1. Pick it up. All of it.
2. Drop it off at the police station.
Horses in diapers at Buckingham Palace? Ummm, no. That simply isn’t true.
But one thing I have seen a lot of in residential areas is people basically rushing to take the manure and use it on their gardens… but there’s no reason why they couldn’t have diapers.
I’ve come across the poop on the streets just recently. It struck me as odd why I don’t feel as passionate about horse poop as the author. There are two reasons, I believe it just doesn’t matter to me:
1. I grew up on a farm so I saw lots of poop in my lifetime. And it’s sort of nostalgic to see and smell poop on the road, just like I get nostalgic riding on King and smelling the hog slaughtering plant on Wellington.
2. I treat the poop as any other object a cyclist might encounter on the roadway: potholes, cans, glass, rocks, car doors and banana peels. I see the offending objects far ahead so I can safely negotiate my way with other traffic around the objects. It means keeping your eyes up so you can plan early, as well as shoulder checking so you don’t end up getting run over by oncoming traffic.
So horse poop is just one of those annoyances that cyclists have to deal with every day. I think the author needs to take a little bit more responsibility for their riding style in traffic.
If you want to complain about anything, complain about the giant utility cuts that aren’t being filled in properly around the city and cause annoying jolts for cyclists.
I actually have used police horse manure in an urban garden, when I had one in the Liberty neighbourhood. And when I lived alone in a warehouse at the edge of the railway lands, I didn’t mind that the area was occasionally patrolled by police on horses. I liked the sound of hoofs on asphalt and I found it charming that the regular beat cop used to give his horse (“Charlie”) wild apples as a treat from the trees near the tracks. But I’m delighted that I’m not alone in my outrage at horse poo in the bike lanes.
Herb > I can understand there are other things to complain about (which I do) but this is a specific action that could be easily rectified with diapers. Potholes and utility cuts have to be done in whichever spot they appear. Horse crap doesn’t.
About changing my cycling habits — in RUSH HOUR I shouldn’t be the one changing my habits cuz I am doing nothing wrong — the horse cop needs to change their habits to help make Toronto’s bike lanes and streets a safer place for cyclists.
This is probably an urban myth but I heard that once while a police horse trailer was parked downtown a local citizen cleaned out the whole thing to use as fertilizer for his garden. When the police got back the entire trailer was spotless.
Matt, fair enough: horse cops should clean up after them. As for your cycling habits, it’s not about apportioning blame. We all should be looking well ahead for objects on the road, whether they be dead squirrels or car doors. It happens ALL the time and we need to be prepared. Blaming only helps after you’ve fallen.
From your post it just sounds like you serve around stuff at the last second. It’s just not a sustainable cycling practice. But perhaps I’m misreading it.
I think you have a point, but they are protecting the streets thats what you people are forgetting. They don’t have the time to get off their horse and pick up the horses dung. A bun bag would be nice but some people haven’t heard of that. Your article is the first time I have heard of it. I think people try and find anything to argue or complain about
Typical crybaby liberal, the Police Horse is crapping in my lane boo hoo hoo. Leaves on the street, gutters and motorists are more dangerous. As a cyclist in a metropolitan city, I find Mickie D cups have knocked more bicylists down then the occacial oat hay and moisture mixture.I don’t hear you and your buds getting trash bags to pick them up and dump them at local resturants. Horses can only crap so many times in a day, so there must be a deeper seated hated of all thing cops that really pisses you off. I can’t wait till anarchy takes over this country so I can personally walk around and happy slap each and everyone of you.
Kevin > You make a lot of assumptions. All that was suggested was a diaper. Makes it safer and cleaner. How can an even an asshole like you be against that?
I had just been wondering the same thing the other day when I drove my car through some horseshit and had it stuck to the wheels. Really, if Toronto is branding itself as a “clean” city, the cops aren’t setting a very good example by leaving shit all over the road. To me it’s akin to cops throwing half-eaten donuts out the windows of the cruisers. Danger to cyclists is something I hadn’t considered, and now I’m triply mad that they don’t have diapers on those horses or send a truck out to clean up after them at least (do they?)
kevin, you have issues.
While I do agree horses shouldn’t have free reign to use the city streets as a stall or field and the cops should be responsible for scooping, or put poop bags on the horses; I think we should all be more concerned about getting cars off the streets and having strict fines in place for people who park in bike lanes and/or open their car doors without any concern for cyclists. This would be a far better use of energy, no?
Horse poop is organic, and to highlight one of the above comments, “you breathe the stuff that comes out the back of cars without complaint, but you don’t want to step in the stuff that comes out the back of horses? When did your lungs get tougher than the soles of your shoes?” We can wash off a little mud, dirt and poop, but car exhaust is far more toxic and cannot be washed away.
Regarding the article in a another paper entitled “Police board wants it to be a crime to harm law-enforcement animals” Published Friday, June 16, 2006, which caused your second “rant” here in Spacing about this subject, I felt compelled to finally write to you. As the founder of “Brigadiers Law” (http://www.brigadierslaw.ca) I highly commend the Toronto Police Board for taking the matter of the ruthless and deliberate killing of Brigadier, the Toronto Police Horse, seriously. This isn’t an issue about horse manure in bike lanes, this is an issue about someone that seemingly was able, without any concern for legal consequences, to kill law enforcement service animal; an extention of the police officer while attempting to enforce law and order. This is an issue that there is a complete lack of respect for law and authority as of late. Without laws and the respect that should accompany it our society will most certainly break down into a state of chaos, and while I sense that you may perhaps wish to live in the “wild west”, without cops and rules, please take note that there was a lot more horse shit all over the road back then! (pardon the pun ).
Think about the real issues, talk about the real problems and discuss possible solutions instead of trying to confuse and obfuscate a serious issue simply for the purposes of “pleasing your crowd”.
Sincerely,
Dan Sandor
Founder, Brigadiers Law
Candidate for City Council, Ward 38 – Scarborough Centre
I believe that you, the editor of this crazy article, has no right, no right at all to talk like you did above. It horse manure! DEAL WITH IT! It doesn’t smell bad, all it is is grass! It’s a free world, let police horses poop all over the town, why should it really matter, its no worse, no it isn’t worse than dog poop everywhere. Stop being so negative about this! It’s annoying and childish. Really, who really cares? NO ONE. If you were smart than I think that you would avoid horse poop on the road, I mean come on, stop being stupid, it’s stupid, your stupid, this topic is stupid, so drop it!!!!
Dan Sandor:
Sanctimonious anthropomorphism.
Jennifer:
Horse manure smells. The dog owner comparison is flawed: they must “stoop and scoop” by municipal law. I have yet to any policemen clean up their own horse defaecation.
Conclusion:
Having horses roam the streets of a modern city is an archaic and filthy habit. Those who love horses can move out to a farm.
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Ever wondered why they use horses and not bikes?….. People on bikes are easy targets to be unbalanced/pushed/knocked or whatever.. horses, (if the right training) can be used to push an angry mob back or say your chasing after someone and go down somewhere narrow..not safe for a bike cause your peddling..using all your energy to catch this person..with a horse..is able to jump obstacles, and run at a speed that is easy to catch someone. And about the “poop”? their right…id rather see a lil poop on the ground then a 5 car pile up, gas leaking, fire burning and death.. which is not rare. maybe you should take a very long, long hard think about what the police go through to help us. and the horses.
wow! What a bunch of little bitches on here complaining about their safety and worried about running over horse droppings! Horse shit doesn’t get stuck on your shoes and stink while dog shit does. Horse shit is pretty much what comes off your cleats after a soccer game, dog shit is what stays on your cleats and smells discusting when idiots walk their dogs in sports fields and don’t pick up after them!!! Forget giving the horses diapers we should get some for the little babies on here whinning about horse shit!
I was at Piccadilly’s last night last night. When we came out of the club around 2:30 we saw 2 cops on 2 horses taking a shit right in front of the club.
Right behind it was a Pontiac Solstice (my favorite sports car under $30,000) even though it had to drive slowly through the pile, most of the manurer was stuck to the treads of the tires. So now not only will it smell like Waterloo everywhere that car drives, it’ll fling shit all over the side of the car and ruin it’s beautiful clear coat finish.
This pisses me off as someone who usually spends a good hour detailing my lexus every week.
“So now not only will it smell like Waterloo everywhere that car drives, it’ll fling shit all over the side of the car and ruin it’s beautiful clear coat finish.
This pisses me off as someone who usually spends a good hour detailing my lexus every week.”
Good luck getting any sympathy on this blog.
I think that the police need to enforce the use of bun bags in there cities. They work great and it would solve alot of problems. Also, anyone who says that horses should not be used by cops has obviously never been on one or else they would understand how effective they are.
You are all full of horse poop. THank goodness your dont live in the country. You could not stand it.
Stay in the city where you belong.
Being a horse owner, you bet your boots I’ll walk thru horse/cow manure any day over dog shit.That mess is downright filthy. I’m just wondering, is the officers equine partner considered an officer also? It would seem like that status would apply as the equine is doing a law enforcement duty. So, if that is the case, everyone who is complaining, JUST SHUT UP AND EAT YOUR GRITS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HORSES HAVE BEEN AROUND LONGER THEN BIKES OR CARS. iT IS THE LAW HERE IN VT THAT HORSES HAVE THE RIGHT OF WAY. i DON’T KNOW WHAT IT IS WHERE THIS HAPPENED BUT DEAL WITH IT. THIS IS A JOKE AND IT MAKES MY BLOOD BOIL THAT YOU WOULD COMPLAIN ABOUT SOMETHING SO ASSANIGN. GET A LIFE AND GET OVER IT. WHEN YOU RIDE YOUR BIKE AND GO TO THE BATHROOM IN THE WOODS OR SOMEWHERE DO YOU PICK THAT UP AND TAKE IT WITH YOU? PROBABLY NOT SO SATOP BITCHING AND GET OVER IT.
Barbara’s comment probably violates one of our policy’s (I think we have an anti capslock one) but it’s just too good because she finds a solution to Toronto’s public washroom woes – we need more patches of trees.