Nathan Phillips Square re-design finalists announced

22 comments

1. This whole thing makes me nervous. I’m sure there are good proposals and I’m optimistic, but the delicacy of this operation is the worry — like brain surgery, you can’t screw around too much in there. Nathan Phillips Square is the brain AND heart of the city.

   That may be the worst analogy I’ve ever made.

2. I’m looking forward to seeing the proposals as models.

3. I’m also weary that this project doesn’t quite have the budget to get this right. Still, there’s not that much wrong with NPS as it currently is, so maybe it’ll turn out o.k.

4. I agree. This is going to be very tricky.

5. At the very least, finalist George Baird (judging from previous statements) would agree that this job takes kid gloves and a certain leaving well enough alone, even with regard to NPS’s “deficiencies”…

6. I’m most worried that the reno will consist of slapping on some postmodern do-hickies and calling it a day. ick.

   I hope that if anything the renovation will respect the Modernist architecture and if anything help perfect it. I personally wouldn’t mind seeing the walk-ways either taken down over overhauled so they’re usable and inviting again.

7. > Still, there’s not that much wrong with NPS as it currently is

   Think of it this way: “Meet me at Nathan Phillips Square!”

   That sounds ridiculous. Why? Because it is not built like a meeting place. There is nowhere to sit, no reason to linger, no reason to go there in the first place, it is very disconnected from Queen and Bay Streets by that giant concrete running track you can’t even use most of the time, and most of the space is wasted on naked concrete.

   Personally I would like to see the entire thing turned into graded steps that you could sit on and watch the street from, with a park somewhere. The fountain could use some work as well.

   Some more food vendors would be nice (grilled corn!), and a more clearly-marked Queen Subway/PATH tunnel could go in the middle of it all.

8. Kevin> No offence, but i think you need to be a Canadian (or have lived here for a while) to get NPS. The Projects for Public Space folks in NYC, as wonderful as they are, had similar criticisms of the square. I think the place is intrinsically linked to our notion of peace order and good government and our relationship to that government. A subtle and arguable thing I’m sure, but NPS is an intensely comfortable and spiritual place, and it doesn’t need much distraction. In the summer, it’s packed with people, it isn’t empty. This city is full of parks overlooking things if you want that — NPS is a very different kind of place. Head up to Mel Lastman Square if you want a square full of stuff — you can’t walk two feet without being told what you’re supposed to do there. Nathan Phillips Square treats Torontonians like they’re intelligent people.

   Putting bullshit like corn in there would be the saddest day Toronto has seen in a long time.

9. although, Shawn, in general, I hope you wouldn’t be opposed to more than just hot dogs and sausages on the street (lovely as they are on chilly december afternoon…)

10. Oh, that gave me a chuckle 🙂 “Bullshit like corn.” That was classic!

    I stand by my criticisms of the square (because Toronto has very few quality gathering places, and we have a chance to create an excellent one with Nathan Phillips Square) and offer one more suggestion:

    The focus of the square should be Queen & Bay, because that is where all the attractions are. That would be a great place for a rounded set of steps like the SE corner of Trinity Bellwoods Park, and hopefully act as a traffic calming measure for southbound Bay St. traffic, as well as provide a great spot for people watching.

    I hope at least one of these design firms is thinking “place making” too!

11. “I hope that if anything the renovation will respect the Modernist architecture and if anything help perfect it. I personally wouldn’t mind seeing the walk-ways either taken down over overhauled so they’re usable and inviting again.”

    IMO the second sentence (or the first part thereof) contradicts the first…

12. Kevin> The focus should be, and is, City Hall, not Queen and Bay. What could be corrected, gently, is some of the flow from there into the square. Removing the huge exhaust grates along Queen Street, etc.

    If any firm is thinking they’ve got to make NPS into a “place” they shouldn’t get the contract because it is already a place.
    andrew> I’m for all kinds of food on the street, hot fudge bananas et al, just not in the square in any permanent way.

13. NPS wasn’t designed to be everything to everyone. It’s a unique and bold space that’s become an important place in defining the city. My take is that any improvements should aim to clarify and enhance the original vision, not change it.

    Current “best practices” for public spaces could help guide some improvements, but they should be used carefully. Applying all the latest public-square thinking runs the real risk of making NPS more generic — turning it into something you’d find in any city.

    The square is flat for a reason, beyond the constraints of the parking garage below: it eliminates the barrier between the public space and the government building, unlike all those government buildings that have a fancy staircase (and now a wheelchair ramp) at their main entrance. And it’s designed to hold major gatherings (e.g. new year’s eve, the outdoor art fair) and protests (guaranteed to get the mayor’s attention since his office is placed right above those main doors).

    As for the walkways, I remember reading once that they were directly modelled on the colonnades around major European squares, though with a modernist twist. Some benches and plantings up there (as in Revell’s plans) would make them more inviting, and the view from below could be improved as well, but they too are part of the original vision.

    I wonder if NPS was 200 years old rather than 40 whether we’d be having this conversation. By then the heritage value would be clearer, but I think it’s already there today.

14. I agree with Shawn, there’s nothing all that much wrong with Nathan Phillips Square. In fact it’s really quite good as it is. Like the subway stations, what it needs most is just a little more care and maintenance.

    As for changes I might like to see, the raised exhaust grates along Queen really have to go as they make pedestrian access more difficult than it needs to be. More ground level access to Bay is needed too, as well as some kind of gateway design at the actual corner of Queen and Bay; the grass and fence that are there at the moment are awkward.
    The triumphal ramp should either be used more or torn down, as right now it just eats space and gets in the way.
    The squat little concession booth by the rink’s replaceable/removable as is the treed area north of it. And a little well-designed permanent seating or even a few more ledges could be nice as well.

    But the raised walkway should definitely stay and be repaired or repurposed–it provides a great sense of enclosure once you’re in the square, and allows you to feel like you’re in a little pocket instead of the city-at-large. It can also be used to string things across the entire area–an event like the City’s Cavalcade of Lights or Nms’s own Night Lights could make very good use of that. And on rainy days it’s just wide enough to stand under and keep dry.
    The skating rink is great, and even the peace garden works fairly well. And the flat all-concrete construction, while a little boring, goes well with the City Hall, which isn’t something that would necessarily be true of a replacement.
    NPS just needs some tweaking, not any sort of major redesign.

    That said, Toronto needs more grand public squares in general and some of them should definitely be along Spanish Steps sort of lines.

15. The few things I’d like to see done with the square:

    1. the elevated walkway that runs along Queen should come down. I like the walkways on running north-south but the Queen St one blocks the view. It was origiinally meant to be over the sidewalk according to Rivell’s plans so we could easily see City Hall. Now we can’t so I have no probs with it coming down.

    2. If the walkways are not going to be used, than put planters or greenery it them so they they overflow.

    3. Dismantle the bridge over Queen from the Sheraton to the square. No need for it and we all know bridges can kill open space.

    4. Use the platform around the chamber better. Either open it up, or make it a patio for a cafe or something. But put life up there. If not people, than green roof the bugger. If you go up there now, there is lots of overgrowth from weeds creeping into the that platform.

    5. I actually like the Peace garden, but I know I’m not n the majority on that.

    6. The washroom/skate rental place is weird. I’d like to see a better connection to the western green space. I expect one of the proposals will call for a permanent stage, which is what I see the skate rental place being turned into. I’m not saying that’s what I want, but that’s something I expect to see.

    7. Re-open up the viewing platform from the top of City Hall.

    8. I side with kevin that there needs to be more seating.

16. “it is not built like a meeting place. There is nowhere to sit, no reason to linger, no reason to go there in the first place…”

    I’ve noticed plenty of people who linger at NPS. I’ve never gone skating there, for example, because the skating rink is too crowded for my liking in the winter. But it’s beautiful. The lights on the arches, the music. I like watching first-time skaters try to make their way around the rink. A lot of people probably skate for the first time here, many of them newcomers who come from countries where snow dosen’t exist.

    In the summer, the benches around the fountain provide a great place to sit and people watch. You’ve got your tourists, your shoppers, your city hall employees, and general loiterers. They’re eating their bagged lunches or hotdogs from the street (and they should really have more food choices there, I agree)and taking lots of pictures.

    There’s also a farmers’ market at least once a week in the summer (I forget which day). You can go make a deputation and then buy some strawberries. There’s also that cafe at the base of city hall, where I’ve met city staff and others for interviews. You can sit there over coffee and watch for councillors and other “important” types to walk by. People are often setting up for some event or another; it’s fun, sometimes, to guess what they’re setting up for as it’s not always obvious or advertised.

    I love that the space is also built for demonstrations. I often get this excited, overwhelmed feeling in my stomach when walking across the square, thinking of all the things that have happened there, the passionate rallies and protests that are part of the narrative of Toronto’s history. To say NPS is not a “place” ignores all of that, and is a slap in the face of the people who came together there to change Toronto for better or worse.

17. I think most people in general like the peace garden. Architects and people who are architecture fans often don’t, though, because it interferes with the original concept.

    The funny thing is, the peace garden addresses some of the issues Kevin brought up – it softens the hard, bare expanse at the centre of the square, and gives people a destination. I’ve heard lots of people, who don’t know the context of the square and don’t realize it’s meant in part as an event space, express sentiments like Kevin’s, so I think it’s good to bear them in mind. If the square is refurbished, it might be possible to address these perceptions in subtle ways without undermining the basic concept. I think Matt is right about the skate rental area cutting off the green space on the west, which would help soften the square if it was more part of it. I hope the new design finds a way to open that up while still providing skate rental and locker facilities.

    Architecture evolves, that’s ok, the trick is making sure it evolves in a good way that improves the original weaknesses but builds on the original strengths. The colonnade obviously no longer works the way it was supposed to, but maybe it can be refurbished, or maybe a different, lighter colonnade can be designed that still fits with the ethos of the original design. The key, as some commentators say above, is respect and subtlety – make the least possible and most appropriate interventions. I don’t really trust that will happen, though, so the process definitely leaves me anxious.

    A couple of questions for the architect buffs out there – is the skate rental and its neighbouring building original, or were they added later? And are the nice but isolated squares of green on the west side original (I assume so, but I’m not sure)?

18. 

    The green space on the west side has the most wonderful long mod benches. Best public benches in the city, by far. It’s actually a fairly big space, with lots of shade and nooks, separated nicely from the rest of the square.

    (Image from Eye Weekly)

19. I’d move the elevated walkway southwards to meet Queen Street, which I believe was the original plan. I heard that the walkway along Queen is so far back from the street is because of plans to widen Queen (along with a Bay Street underpass) back in the 60s when Metro was road crazy. Otherwise keep the ramp, keep the walkways and remove the berms. As well, make the Bay Street side more pedestrian friendly – walking north along Bay from Queen on either side of the street is not very efficient.

    Last year the walkway was reopened, and it was amazing to walk around up there. It really gives a different perspective on the Square and the surroundings in general.

20. Dylan, there are hints to the answers for some of your questions about what’s original in the Heritage Issues Report listed on the competition documents page.

    Looks like the skate rental building was built at the same time as the square, but wasn’t part of the Revell design that won the competition.

21. Technically, there’s a lot in the present configuration that wasn’t part of the competition-winning design–details, sitings, etc–but one also has to be very ginger re the temptation to “correct” it according to Revell’s “original intentions”, esp. given how acclimatized, and not unfortunately, we’ve become to what’s there right now. Also consider how Revell and (even posthumously) his team were continuously part of the design process, right to the opening; sure, he might have regretted some compromises taken (as any architect-in-charge would), but compared to the situation re Jorn Utzon and Sydney Opera House, things went very cleanly and painlessly and scandal-free, save silly Council disputes over furnishings, the Archer, etc.

    Like, re the skate rental building, I understand. But go too far, and you might as well go whole hog and rebuild the City Hall towers according to what was mooted in 1958.

    John Barber’s Globe piece today (Dec 9) is worth pondering, esp. for dwelling upon the fact that not only are 3 of 4 finalists “local” (and the fourth “localized”), but that two of them–Baird, Zeidler–have already been on record in recommending leaving well enough alone. So, it seems like this competition might wind up “self-correcting”, after all, relative to earlier overzealous thinking-out-loud about the-walkways-got-to-go, etc…

22. That we can’t go up to the viewing platform around the chamber is a great shame and what is the use of the grand, sweeping ramp if it’s not used? Like a lot of public spaces in Toronto, the execution of the square is ruined somewhat by all the detritus that we filled it that was not part of Revell’s original plan and by very utilitarian approaches to ensuring public safety, like the chain link guards to prevent people from climbing the arches over the rink.

    If NPS was free of this clutter and the square was made fully accessible without safety fences and blocked ramps, it would be a class act; one of the best examples of high modernist architecture anywhere in the world. The fact that it’s a nice public place with all of the knick knacks we’ve thrown at it over the years attests to the magnificent design of the square in the first place.