Mayor David Miller held a press conference today to encourage Torontonians to pressure their city councillors to implement the two proposed taxes. He also called for an emergency council meeting before the end of September to debate the tax implementation instead of waiting for the October 22 council meeting (as previously decided by council when members voted to defer a decision on new taxes until after the October 10 provincial election).
The announcement is part of a campaign that includes printed materials and a web site. Spacing’s Dale Duncan will have more from the press conference for our readers within the hour. Here’s some info from the Toronto Star article:
Mayor David Miller says he’ll halt the closure of community centres if Toronto council agrees to hold a special meeting this month to consider two new taxes for the city.
And he said city manager Shirley Hoy has already agreed to keep the centres open this Monday for some programs, in the hope that council will come to grips soon with the financial issues besetting the city.
…
It was one of a string of cost containment measures Hoy came up with, at Miller’s request, when council voted in July to defer consideration of two new taxes until Oct. 22. Miller says the taxes — a land transfer tax and a vehicle registration tax — are needed to fill a projected $576-million gap in the 2008 budget.
“I’m urging members to agree (to a special meeting) because by doing so and adopting the tax measure we can…resolve the city’s immediate financial challenges,†he said.
Miller made the plea backed by a phalanx of 18 city councillors. Miller needs the consent of two-thirds of council’s 45 members — 44 councillors plus the mayor — in order to re-open the tax issue prior to Oct. 22.
33 comments
I agree with the two proposed taxes. That said, I am somewhat let down with aspects of this PR campaign.
1. It does not clearly state that if these 2 taxes happen there is still a long way to go. I know that sometimes things need to be broken down into smaller chunks to get them done but if the Liberals don’t reverse the Harris taxes then we will be back at this spot by next year and the somewhat distracted public will be saying “I thought we solved that last year”. If council votes yes on these taxes I am affraid that pressure on Dalton will subside and they will do nothing.
2. The Mayors message also says “A fair and affordable level of property taxes. Without new taxes, Toronto will be forced to ask property taxpayers to cover the full cost of these services.” Again this is the same property tax shell game that partially got us here in the first place; the assumption that property taxes can never go up when in fact they are low (for the services we get) compared to everyone else in the GTA. This is a disguised threat of raising property taxes even though the reality is they will have to go up regardless. I find it a bit dishonest; its the same kind of pandering that let council to come up with schemes like selling Hydro poles to stop property tax hikes. And many of those who schemed and delayed are still with us, still not telling the truth. Miller included.
I hope this gets the two taxes voted in but something deep inside makes me feel that we are not getting at the real issues; Dalton must be happy.
Hope this goes better than One Cent Now: we deserve it.
I’m for the taxes. Closing centres/stopping services will have far-reaching, negative consequences for neighbourhoods, communities, the whole city. Let’s address our deficit AND keep pressuring the provincial and federal governments. Torontonians, get vocal!
I quite frankly think that our taxes are way too high now. I seriously believe that if the current tax load is as high as it should be allowed to go.
I strongly believe that if the money coming into the city money well were managed effectively we would not be in the mess that we are currently. As a graphic example, last summer the sidewalk outside the back of the hospital where I work was broken up to allow some work to be done. Was it fixed properly, did they pour a new slab of concrete? Not at all, rather they repaired with a poorly laid patch of ashphalt was put down. Several months later it was in pieces, did they pour concrete now? Nope, they corrected the problem with yet more ashphalt!! Now about a month ago, the ashphalt once again broke down creating once again a hazaard for those trying walk on the sidewalk, in particular patients of several downtown hospitals. Now finally, more than a year later new concrete was poured creating a lovely new patch of safe sidewalk.
To me this is a graphic example of the waste allowed at city hall! Surely a job done correctly once is much more efficient than one done badly two or three times. Most certainly it is more a more efficient use of our tax dollar.
I suggest, Mr.Miller that you look to your current practices before you consider more taxes.
barbara — your example is not of waste, but rather the opposite. The city doesn’t have that much money to pay enough workers to fix all of our problems. I think you’re missing the point entirely — your example is of poor worker management, not of financial waste.
Mayor Miller
READ OUR LIPS NO NEW TAXES!!!!
You have to learn to budget your operation like any other buisness, and if you have reduce labour expenses like any buisness operation then do it.
I rather you close comunity centres for one day and lay off staff then pay additional taxes, because you havn’t learned to budget the city operation.
I and others like me will continue to organize opposition to any propsed tax hike because you can not manage your organizational affares.
Mayor Miller, Toronto is taxed enough, you are better off asking for support from the citizens to go after the provincial parties to stop the douwn loading.
Wake up David it not going to happen!!
Robert
Way to distill it all down to something else entirely, Robert. Read my lips YOUR LIPS DO NOT SPEAK FOR “I AND OTHERS LIKE ME” (sic).
Robert> Toronto receives kudos and awards for being well managed and making do with what we have. Again sorry for being repetitive, but my parents taxes in Uxbridge are over 1000.00 $ more a year than mine in downtown Toronto; I think you need to do some research. Lastly Miller has been after the upper levels of government for more money; did the “1 Cent” campagin somehow pass you buy ?
Funny how crime is down but the most massive budget increases are for Police; I’m sorry I didnt hear you calling for cuts there.
You can fall for the self interest spin put out by those with vested interests like the Toronto Real Estate Board or pathalogical zealots like the Taxpayers Federation but the reality as stated even by the Toronto Board of Trade, you know that Communist Organisation, is a lot different than you think. I politely suggest that you do some more reading on the facts.
Robert> sorry to to go on but if Toronto is so mismanaged how come the same issues are affecting other cities and towns in Ontario and on a federal level other cities like Calgary and Edmonton?
The debate is between people who want to pay for a great city, and people who want to settle for the mediocre city that is available for what we’re paying now.
Robert’s taken his side.
I am so tired of Miller hitting on the property tax payers.When will this ever end.Toronto is the bread basket of Ontario,let alone Canada.Its time we standup for are rights and say no more!DON.
I find this action very sad especially right on the heels of the TTC fare hike under the guise of being required because the proposed taxes were no longer an option.
So this has been planned all along. This is an incredibly dishonest action in my opinion and I am disgusted with Miller and his cronies. I think the $15000 spent on the so called TTC survey would have been better off in the bank, especially as the survey questions were a joke, the survey mgmt a joke and the results neither tallied properly (somehow they ended up with 130% on their split instead of 100%) nor even intended to be meaningful.
And never mind that we havent heard any talk of the salary increase being rolled back. Thats considered to not be enough money to matter, yet closing community centres for $700,000 was deemed worth it.
And ‘beautifying’ 3 subway stations that dont need it for the tune of 5 million doesnt make it to the chopping block. and so on and so on.
Sorry Tobias, but Barbara is right. Poor management is extremely wasteful. Imagine that sidewalk being fixed the first time properly. How much money would this save? Imagine this same thing multiplied over and over again across the City on larger and smaller scales.
I believe the City has an obligation to look to its own spending before it reaches out to the taxpayers.
And to throw this out at this juncture just before the provincial elections demonstrates to me that Miller will not be making any serious attempts to get any of this money back from the province. We’ll find ourselves in this situation over and over again every few years.
Don ^
hate to break the news to you, but what Miller is proposing is to relieve the property tax payers, which I’m assuming is what you want. And for the exact same reason you give — TO is the bread basket of Canada — he is trying to lessen the pressure on property taxes and fund the city that grows with the economy. Just look:
As for the above comment: I agree that we can find savings in better management, but Tobias was right: the city lacks the funds to properly maintain or roads and sidewalks. Pot holes and sidewalks need quick repairs and sometimes its easier to do this 20 time over in day rather than 10 a day (I’m making the numbers up just for examples). People complain when there’s a problem and its not fixed quickly. These departments have to choose between speed and quality and sometimes both suffer. But these savings are minor when you need to find a half-billion deficit.
I also think you the above commenter needs to understand the difference between operating and capital costs. Complain about the TTC stations improvements, but you’ll also complain when the roof is leaking. So the TTC is fixing the whole station, and “doing it right the first time” like you suggest, but somehow that’s the wrong thing to do.
Go to the http://fairtaxes.ca web site to read the audit reports. There is little room to find efficiencies. We’re talking about 500 million dollars out of 7 billion budget.
what audit reports? I see reports but no audit reports.
I understand very well the difference between operating and capital costs Jim. Maintaining existing buildings is part of operating costs and the funding for this project comes from TTC sources of revenue.
Interesting that the province is willing to shell out some huge sums of money for ‘capital costs’ which only go to expansion and building new, but will not provide any relief for operating costs. Jim, please note that the beautification project is called just that-not a repairs project and it is not about fixing those 3 stations, it is about trying to tie them visually into arts related buildings that are nearby the stations. I most certainly don’t think thats doing it right the first time or any time.
I’m also not going to accept that we cant find more efficient and profitable ways to run our Works department or any other department in this City. Quick fixes dont have to be the temporary and low quality fixes you talk about.
Sorry Jim, my comment was in response to Mickey, not you. Apologies.
I do not support the upcoming recommendation to increase our property taxes. While I recognize the need to continually improve and maintain our city, I feel that our effort needs to be put towards putting constant and significant pressure on the Provincial government to re-establish their “fair share” of the costs. So long as we/the taxpayers continue to accept incremental increases in both taxes and TTC fares, the fight with the Province will not have the desired impact or outcomes.
I urge my fellow Torontonians to support a provincial government that will step up to their financial obligations relative to services they should rightly be paying for, so that our city tax dollars can be applied accordingly.
jb
Joanne > I mean this is the nicest way: read the article and know your facts! There is to be NO PROPERTY TAX increase with this proposal. Yes, money comes from a Land Transfer tax. Please be accuracte when making your point because it de-validates your point-of-view.
That aside, I agree the province is the one to foot most of our bills. But 4 years of a friendly government to Toronto hasn’t produced it. When you run out of money for your family, and your boss has repeatedly turned you down for a raise, do you just keep holding out that for that raise? even if it means your family will have to move, eat cheap cheap food, etc. No, you do what you have to do and get another job. This is the spot the city is in.
When Miller talks about efficiency, he uses other city governments as comparisons. The reality is that all governments have the same problem. Namely, pension plans, benefit plans (e.g accumulation of sick days) and low work standards (i.e. you can’t fire me I’m part of the union mentality) that are way out of line with the private sector.
Private sector workers have taken their hit over the years as the global economy has forced companies to cut benefits to remain competive. Public sector workers refuse to take any reduction in compensation packages that even workers gleefully state, “getting a job with the government is like winning a lottery.”
Until the public sector workers move into the real world, don’t even consider raising taxes on us poor folks who don’t have big fat government pensions to fall back on in our old age when we have no savings thanks to unrealistic levels of taxation.
Ian
Anyone who supports the taxes should declare when they intend to pay them. Renters, for instance, won’t be paying the LTT any time soon.
I paid two years worth of motor vehicle taxes this year so Miller’s grab at my weekend/out of town transport won’t happen until Aug 2009.
I totally disagree with Miller’s new land transfer taxes. I think my mortgage will be enough of a burden and I don’t know where I’m going to find an extra $5000?? Why is only 5% of the home population footing the bill for everybody else? Let’s be fair here!
Also, why is noone inquiring how we got to this deficit in the first place? It’s seems like now where this deficit appeared.
toby — there is not deficit. I believe a city is not allowed to run a deficit.
This crisis did not come out of nowhere. Lots of people are talking about how we got in this situation. Its nothing new and was made perfectly clear during the last election that without new taxing power the city would face a financial crisis. Pitfield said she wouldn’t use the taxes, Miller said he would. He got 60% of the vote.
If you want to get that $5000 back, you just have to negotiate it out of the realtor’s commission, but they won’t tell you that. The reason TREB is up in arms is because they will be the only ones to lose money on this. You can include the LTT in your bid.
I ask you this: did the provincial land transfer tax make you reconsider your purchase? Probably not since no one even notices it. The same will apply to this tax. If you’re buying a $500,000 home you can certainly afford the LTT.
ali, just a note that the vendor pays the real estate commission and the purchaser pays the ltt. so your negotiating group gets a little larger here. the real estate agent negotiates his/her fee at the time of listing not at the time of sale.
Every one here has been talking about the Miller mafia tax grab, but the facts are that the reason the city of Toronto has its back against the wall, is due to the provincial down loading of services on ALL Ontario municipalities.
Right now we have a low key provincial election, but the liberal regime is not offering any thing to Toronto or any other Ontario municipalities. I would recommend that any one reading this site to be asking when we will ALL get our money back from the Province who has been picking everybody’s pocket and offering nothing in return.
It is this expense down load on all Ontario municipalities that is providing clean balance sheets for this current provincial government, but putting Toronto’s back against the wall in the process with these extra costs.
However the Miller Mafia has not offered any other alternatives to the solution other than I want your money on a new house purchase. This tax grab will only drive up the costs for new families, and limit the entry for young families into the GTA, but a great push for every one up to the 905 area and beyond.
When you look at the Miller Mafia in today’s Toronto Star you will see them all lined up saying PAY UP Toronto we want YOURRRR MONEY NOW!!
I say it is time to throw this bum out of office and hear what the next one has to say, if anything.
“However the Miller Mafia has not offered any other alternatives to the solution other than I want your money on a new house purchase.”
How pleasant to know that all those closed libraries and community centres and hiring freezes and proposed TTC cuts were just some sort of crazy hallucination.
Toronto has hit a tax wall and it is made of caviar. Really, take a look at today’s Toronto Star at the back of the classifieds it compares two homes sold (“What they got”). In Mississauga a house that sold for $480,000 paid $3928 in taxes. In Toronto a house that sold for $827,000 paid $3218 (and probably insist that they paid to much).
More here……..
http://www.southofsteeles.blogspot.com/
your comment makes no sense, Glen. Your example means Toronto *hasn’t* hit a tax wall.
How much cheaper is it to service a dense city home vs a sprawl home? How much more road/sewer/etc is needed to feed that built form, rather than downtown?
The Audit reports are linked from the fairtaxes.ca site — they weren’t there before, but are now. Since 2002, there have been over 60 reports, 660 recommendations, 80% implemented already, and over $68 million saved.
Every dollar the city has spent on auditing has saved it about $5.
Metis,
It is a sarcastic remark, pointing out the absurdity of everyone else paying much higher property tax than those in Toronto.
Janet,
The services that you are referring to are covered by development fees paid when homes are constructed. Smaller homes do not require less fire, ambulance, etc. Look at the chart I have on my blog and tell me which one of those expenses scales well with density.
Those services may be built (or at least paid for) by developers when the homes are built, but everything needs rehabilitation eventually. And it costs the same to plough snow off of a 250-metre length of road, whether the cost is supported by taxes from 50 downtown-style semis or 15 suburban detached houses. Just to name a couple examples.
Some of this efficiency does actually apply to fire protection, since fire stations need to be located to supply a certain response level to a particular geographic area, not to a particular number of addresses, although of course there are other factors at work there.
Brent,
You are right about the need for eventual rehabilitation and yes, urban density does offer some economies of scale. To what extent is the question. As you mentioned, there are a number of factors that have an impact and some of them work both ways. At the end of the day though, can you look at that chart and and say that more 10% can be saved by means of density?
I think the 2 proposed taxes are more fair thank just an increase in property taxes since if you can afford to buy a property the extra tax isn’t large enough to make the purchase an issue. The same thing with a car tax; if you can afford to run a car $60 a year is only $5 per month. A small price to pay to help keep our city solvent.