JOHN LORINC: Councillors’ ideas on how to fix TTC

38 comments

1. I’m reading through the comments and there are some good and some bad ideas in there. And then I get to end…obviously John left the biggest and best idea for the end.

   Seriously, that’s the most insane idea I’ve ever heard. I’m baffled.

2. The Fare Card idea is great – of course all of those Councillors should already know that Metrolinx is heading-up that effort to ensure that like Boston and New York there’s an integrated regional approach but then, they’d have to actually be paying attention to know that.

   Agree with him or not on other issues, Miller hits it on the head here. We’re one of few countries without a national urban and transit strategy, which is key on so many fronts from economic development to Energy and Environment.

   What’s not surprising is that not one of them mentions anything to do with Road Pricing/Road User Charging in order to both improve the speed/efficiency/competitiveness of less-expensive surface routes while ensuring the funding required to borrow large amounts to pre-pay for investments in infrastructure necessary to put more people on transit while creating more equity in Transportation and taxation. Toronto is now among a very small number of Cities (and Canada, countries) not looking seriously at how to use price to better allocate capacity.

3. I feel customer service is not even the right mentality. Passengers may be customers in some other cities, but in Toronto people who use transit have no other choice, so we aren’t really customers. It is ironical, but I feel that it is precisely a passenger-as-customer attitude that are causing the “customer service” problems at the TTC.

4. The comments from councillors on the Commission seem to be either “better service” or “do Transit City”. (It might help to highlight commission members.)

   The non-Comissioned councillors have some nutty ideas.

   My own categorizations:

   SUBWAYS ARE CHEAP AND EASY WHY AREN’T WE DOING EVERYTHING IN SUBWAYS???
   “Build subways into under-serviced areas in northern regions of Scarborough and North York, and Etobicoke.”
   “Build subways, using the excavated fill to expand waterfront parks.”
   “Put all transit vehicles in tunnels.”

   I HATE HANDLING MY CONSTITUENTS’ TRANSIT COMPLAINTS (AKA MAYBE SUBWAYS AREN’T THE ANSWER AFTER ALL)
   “Give it to Metrolinx for a complete overhaul.”
   “Give the subway system to Metrolinx so it can be combined with GO.”
   “Turn the TTC over to the province.”
   “Contract out the operation of the subway lines.”

   LET’S GIVE LOCAL TIMEWASTERS AND WINDBAGS A MUCH-NEEDED PLATFORM
   “Radically de-centralize TTC management by allow local citizen groups to set priorities and budgets for individual stations.”

   I HAVE A MAGIC WAND AND I’M NOT AFRAID TO WAVE IT
   “Improve efficiency and reduce operating costs by eliminating the problem of bunching streetcars and buses along major routes.”
   “Provide the TTC with an extra billion dollars to make up for a decade of underfunding.”
   “Put all transit vehicles in tunnels.”

5. Subject all proposed expansions, including Transit City, to a detailed cost/benefit analysis. Provide detailed information on factors effecting future ridership growth (age, demographics, employment densities, origin-destinations factors, etc.). No more build it and they will come attitude.

6. Hand over the TTC to Metro de Madrid.

7. “Mike Del Grande: Put all transit vehicles in tunnels.”

   That’s the kind of idea I’d expect from a kid in grade 2.

8. Disappointing that not one of the councillors makes reference to studying successful case studies in other cities. The way to fix the TTC? Figure out what New York, Chicago, SF, Boston, Montreal, Portland, Seattle, Houston, LA, Charlotte, Dallas, Denver, etc. are doing right AND COPY IT. Quit making reference to theoretical ideals and vague concepts. Want to implement a fare card that you can also use at the library? Don’t muse about it and then waste time trying to re-invent the wheel — copy Hong Kong, where you can use the Octopus card for transit, libraries, parking, and even a door key.

   There are many examples out there of what works so take your heads out of the big sandpit they must keep at City Council and start borrowing from the experience of others. (You know, just like other cities used to do with Toronto back when it was the shining example of civic virtue – http://bit.ly/dzfa3B).

   My vote would go to the councillor who says something like this regarding the TTC “We need to have a website like City A, funding like City B, fare structure like City C, construction management like City D, station maintenance like City E, union rules like City F” and so on. That would be a councillor capable of concrete, measurable action.

9. My favourite comments were

   “Radically de-centralize TTC management by allow local citizen groups to set priorities and budgets for individual stations.”

   and

   “Put all transit vehicles in tunnels.”

   One can only imagine….

   I think the lack of funding is key. The TTC needs to be given the tools to raise funds. Metro Vancouver applies a $0.075/litre gas levy for transit.

10. Doug Holyday is right about getting politicians out of the TTC. I didn’t believe it before, but after reading those quotes I do.

    It’s blindingly obvious from these quotes how little these politicians know about transit service and infrastructure. I feel half of them have never used a TTC bus in their lives.

11. Glen, it’s amazing how your two consecutive posts contradict each other. Metro de Madrid lines were NOT studied for cost benefit, ridership, or anything at all. They were built purely on a “build it and they will come” premise. And it worked.

    Studying projects to death does only one thing: kills them.

12. Wow. In a municipal election year, you’d think they would do a bit more research on the issues. Time to throw most of them out.

    p.s. on behalf of all the people and ratepayers of Scarborough-Agincourt, i apologize for the comments of Mike Del Grande and Norm Kelly.

13. I’m somewhat surprised by the number of councillors who suggest turning the TTC over to Metrolinx.

14. John didn’t make note of this in the article but to put the comments in the propoper context. We were asked to list one thing and one thing only we would set as a priority for the TTC. We were not asked, nor offered an opportunity, to provide background or context for the single priority.

    I’m aware of what is going on in Hong Kong, London and Chicago with smart cards and chip technology. I’m fully aware that Metrolinx is trying to establish the technology in the GTA.

    My point in expanding the opportunities and applications was to move it past simply a new fare system, and hopefully start debate on a city smart card could do more than just reform the TTC, while fixing a long standing problem for transit riders in Toronto.

    For the record, I too would like cleaner vehicles. Better funding from senior governmen and friendlier staff.

    I’m not sure about how kicking elected citizens off the TTC and replacing them with people chosen by the elected people to serve on the TTC will change much…at the end of the day electing the right people to city council remains the big challenge.

    av

15. Adam, at least when non-politicians apply for a spot in TTC management, they will have to provide knowledge and background in the industry. To be an elected politician, all that is required is that you can pander to the electorate.

16. lukev,

    For the cost that Metro de Madrid constructed its subway, it is very easy to capture the benefit.

17. Who used to appoint the non-politicians to the Commission back in the day before the Metro Councillors took it all over for themselves?

    Stable operating funding is the key – we’re falling into the US model of higher level governments providing billions for capital funding to build things, and then not providing one nickel to keep things operating. San Francisco Muni just instituted a pile of service cuts and is toying with the idea of charging a premium $5 fare to ride the streetcars on Market St to raise revenue. They are already charging a $5 fare to ride the cable cars.

18. Given what I have seen with the Translink overhaul by removal of all the elected representatives, I am not certain that doing something similar or turning it over to Metrolink will really help the TTC fix itself. I suspect the biggest problem is the middle management, who have to implement any changes and won’t be changed by most of those proposals.

19. Given the ity-wide importance of transit to our future, why not have the TTC Commissioner a separate elected politician? It’s a huge budget, a huge responsibility and requires specialist knowledge and a relevant professional background. Having a local councillor given the plum position is an extreme disservice to constituents in the ward, as people in ward 18 Davenport can testify. Have a TTC chair? Then you also get an absentee councillor .

20. How about instead of ridiculous time sensitive metropasses or weekly passes a swipe card linked to your credit card that charges once a month based on your usage. Charge the standard multiple token fare of 2.50 and then every time you swipe you card gets the 2.50 hit. It would save using the metropass card and having to pay so much up front. You wouldn’t have to worry about picking up tokens. It would eliminate fare collectors and tokens all together and make it easier quicker to get into the subways and streetcars.

21. Re TTC Election Issues,
    The single biggest policy issue for this election should be to open up tendering on TTC projects to all qualified contractors and trades people and end the Building Trades labour monopoly on all TTC construction and maintenance tenders. Since Miller and gang consolidated the Trades monopoly during amalgamation this discriminatory policy has costs the City and its’ ABC’s $100’s of millions in inflated Construction Cost estimated at 30% on the Dollar by the City of Hamilton. If the TTC had these funds back most of the crappy maintenance issue would not be an issue, similarly with the housing authority. Without these public tender monopolies Subways might look more affordable. At a minimum it would mean dollar for dollar 30% more Transit City and 30% more jobs. Last week the Trades indicated that they have dumped the Progressive camp and gone to Smitherman, so Spacing readers need no longer instinctively dump on the suggestion just because the Trades were Miller supporters. Progressives should be able to agree that a private construction sector monopoly of Trades and their Contractors on Toronto Public tendering is innately not good for the economic or ethical health of Toronto.

22. Back in the days when TTC had “citizen” members, there was nothing to prevent them being cronies of the politicians who appointed them. Their function was to insulate Council from decisions behind a wall of so-called independence on the TTC board.

    All major decisions at the TTC are subject to funding from Council. You could have the most radical, customer and service focussed board on the planet, but if Council wants to limit transit spending or, worse, focus it in areas that are of limited transit (as opposed to political) benefit, then that’s what will happen.

    As for Metrolinx, it now has a “private” board, meets mostly in secret, and so infrequently that one must assume that the management actually run everything. Is that really the model you want for your transit system?

23. In discussion the Madrid experience, the testimony of Prof. Melis, the project’s front man, to the Irish Parliament might be of interest:

    Here are some excerpts:

    “To reduce the construction time, divide the project or the whole design simultaneously and award and sign the big contracts before August. This is possible and the design will be finished by Christmas. Most of the design companies and consultants will ask for many years to do the design. This is a waste of time. They need only six to eight months. Any more than this increases costs and is not useful. If the design is ready by December the construction can start in February or March of next year.” (emphasis added)

    “There will be no holidays in the next three years for the committee and the staff supervising the work. This is our life as engineers, otherwise we might be ballet dancers. Building a metro is a serious matter.” (imagine the laughter at TTC HQ/ATU113 HQ if that was proposed!)

    “The Paris métro was inaugurated in 1900 for the World Fair. The man who built it was a well-known engineer and character, Fulgence Beinvenue. He had worked on the railways before being put in charge of the métro. He lost his left arm in a construction accident but he built the first line, 11 kilometres and 18 stations in 20 months. He and his men had no plant and machinery but they built it, no problem. A century later what are the construction companies telling us?”

    “The design should be kept simple; do not confuse the idea of a museum or beautiful buildings for the city with railway stations. (…) The Jubilee Line station designed by Sir Norman Foster, took a long time to build. In the same amount of time we built 60 stations, possibly for the same price. It is essential to simplify the design.”

24. I would appreciate if someone could point to a recent study comparing TTC subsidies to the subsidies received other transit systems (when taking into account the cost of capital projects and operating funds — and ideally comparing both on a subsidy per ride basis and subsidy expressed as a percentage of cost basis). While the generally accepted view that the TTC is more efficient than most systems was likely true in the past, and still could be true, I wouldn’t mind seeing a bit of evidence.

    As an aside, it seems logical that to obtain substantial ongoing funding from other orders of government, the City would need to cede some control to those other orders of Government.

25. Re SF: Hey, I’d happily see tourists pay $5 to ride historic streetcars in a loop around Toronto. Oops, we don’t have any such route and most of our old streetcars are sitting in a barn in Wisconsin. Sure, SF Muni is considering service cuts but their cash fare is currently $2, seniors are 75 cents, a monthly pass equivalent to TTC and GO within the 416 is $70 and a senior monthly pass is $15. And their funding is not all capital pork – BART gets most of its funding from a dedicated sales tax.

    I would take US funding models in a heartbeat. It’s hard to believe but American cities surpassed Toronto long ago in terms of transit funding; they just don’t have the ridership due to other structural problems in how their cities (fail to) work. With their cash, the TTC would be rocking.

26. What I said was to keep tunnelling for subways. I was asked would I put the LRT under ground and I said yes. I did not say to put all vehciles under ground.

27. All of these ideas won’t work to their fullest extent because the TTC Union will, as usual, make things difficult to implement if at all. If Toronto/Ontario/Canada can somehow decrease the power of the Union or get rid of it altogether, that’s when you’ll see real change with the TTC and that is when we’ll all have a transit system that is not only cost effective but also one we can be proud of.

28. Look at Adam Vaughn’s comments:

    John didn’t make note of this in the article but to put the comments in the propoper context. We were asked to list one thing and one thing only we would set as a priority for the TTC. We were not asked, nor offered an opportunity, to provide background or context for the single priority.

    This is not the first time that I have had to take Spacing to task.

    When ask what one thing would I do to improve the TTC I answered build more tunnels for subways and I explained it further.

    Not content with my answer he asked about putting LRT under ground and I said yes.

    That somehow gets translated into putting all TTC vehicles under ground.

    I DID NOT SAY THAT.

    Vaughn did not say what I will say, “John takes liberty to put out his truth rather than reporting what was said in it’s context”.

29. For the record, when I spoke with Councillor Del Grande at council last week, he said, “I would be digging tunnels to put the transit underground.” According to my notes, he further indicated that the tunnels would be “for everything.” He added that he would let other levels of government lay the tracks. Lastly, he seemed put out at having to step away from a council debate to speak with a reporter.

30. It would be interesting to see how many other Councillors feel that their replies as presented above have been mischaracterized. If nothing else, bonus points to any of them who stop by to comment and show they (or a staffer) read Spacing.

31. Greg, fyi — I am fully aware that the question of `how to solve transit’ is very complex, with tendrils extending into all sorts of areas. But I feel there’s value in getting these elected officials to focus on a key point, and I was very clear about that. Some of them subsequently asked me to use another priority than the one they’d initially mentioned and I allowed that, as I much prefer a thoughtful answer than a glib one. And speaking of which, when Councillor Del Grande was asked to participate, there was a fair bit of eye rolling and hrumphing before he anted up his priority. Whether he was being straight or facetious at the time remains a bit unclear in my mind. With the foregoing comment, he’s trying to do a bit of damage control. He’s a big boy — he knows the rules of engagement.

    In terms of other councillors being mischaracterized, I do my work in public and take full responsibility for my reporting. Adam V. always likes to add context, and the comment string provided him with that opportunity. And not everyone liked the format of the survey, which is fair enough. But the vast majority of councillors — Del Grande and Anthony Perruzza being the most obvious exceptions — gave the question some thought, for which I am grateful on behalf of the readers of this blog.

32. For sure, John — my interest is in the councillors’ perception of mischaracterization, not to suggest that you’ve done anything wrong. I don’t see any quotation marks wrapped around the replies, and (to me at least) you were clearly boiling down an exchange of some kind into a concise point so as to allow for juxtaposition. Like you said, the beauty of the comments on Spacing (as opposed to many other media) lies in the back-and-forth.

33. If Del Grande wanted to “damage control” he would back track FULLY. The man is a trained accountant — as he likes to tell people — yet he wants to put LRT in tunnels? ts $500 million per kilometre to build subways. That means Transit City, at 120km in length combined, would cost taxpayers about $60 billion!!!! i Its about $50 million to do LRT.

    If he is truly an accountant he should have his credentials removed. He is either: 1 pandering in an election year; or 2. entirely out-to-lunch.

34. The rules of engagement are to answer honestly and to report fairly, unless there is some other engagement I am not aware of. As I have indicated, reporters for this publication have shown me a continual bias.

    Since you buy ink by the barrel you can mischaracterise all you want, but, John there will be no next time. Good to have you respond as I see you coming to your defense.

    There is no damage control. As I indicated it went down the way I said it did. The reporter did not like my answer prior to which I repeatedly asked him to clarify what it was he wanted.

    And listening to a debate like, “should a councillor get the city to pay for his legal expenses as a candidate” is more important (which to all the negative types who commented, I made it an issue of principal and integrity.

    Go ahead and take the cheap shots- . It seems the story and the attention of the responders is now about me. I thought it was about an exchange of thoughts and ideas about the TTC. It is now personal.

    How interesting that the intelligencia would comment that I should have my credentials removed.

    Hey Bussin, maybe you had something about using city money for suing people.

    Heck, I got that defeated in council.

35. Automation is the only solution to the lack of customer service at the TTC. When you have to wait for the third TTC employee to finally announce a delay in a clear and concise tone, when the TTC employees who were required to announce subway stations had their kids announce the stops, when TTC employees(who have cell phones?) don’t know the beginning,end or course of an emergency. Not to mention the TTC employees at Dufferin and Runnymede stations who refused to check Metropasses during the rush hour during the counterfeit pass crisis two years ago. I could go on… I spend 2 hours and 20 minutes on the TTC going across 3 subway systems each and every weekday and have done so for 20 years.

36. The TTC has too much money for capital expenditures and too little sense. See the disasters at Victoria Park station and Keele station. Also, the 5 year St Clair adventure where the TTC saved 3 minutes from Keele to Yonge since it chose to reduce the number of its vehicles on that route. Of course they put a number of businesses out of business.

37. Fare card would be great, but I’m worried that by the time it gets approved, it will be obsolete, and its roll-out will be partial, practically ensuring its failure.

    How about re-organizing the TTC’s structure to broaden its real-estate portfolio and allow it to operate as owner-developer? Right now the TTC imposes so many constraints and structural requirements that no developer will touch a TTC station or property. If the TTC developed its own lands and build “on top” of its stations, it would create an in-house revenue generator and produce the very anchor it needs to promote ridership.

    Of course the TTC will try a pilot on a small parking lot property in the middle of nowhere, build a McD’s or some sort of office. It will, of course, not work at a substantial cost over-run and be deemed a failure. The idea, implemented after several pricey consultant reports, will be shelved. City/TTC officials and some media will debate the idea’s merits, pointing out that the only reason it works in every other “world class city” is because they have warmer weather and shorter distances. 20 years down the line they’ll lament that Toronto has yet to reach that oh-so-undefined world class.

    That’s just how we do things in this city, half-assed. We should stop comparing ourselves to other city classes and focus on doing something well, on time, to satisfy the needs of Toronto (broadly speaking) and its denizens.

    Sorry, I’m jaded. Here’s hoping a young generation can turn things around. What with all the amateur/professional planning blogs out there, it’s hard to find a youth who doesn’t “know good planning”.

    E

38. “Search & Read before ye post”

    Here’s a 2008 staff report on the idea of TTC as developer: http://www3.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Commission_reports_and_information/Commission_meetings/2008/Aug_27_2008/Supplementary_Reports/Development_of_Trans.pdf

    Idea already shot down, although the six lines explanation on p5 leaves a lot to be desired.

    E