[Edit – I received comments that my original version of this report included too much speculation. I have removed most of the speculation. Instead, I would like to discuss my reaction to this incident, and the broader issues]
I was waiting for the light at the corner of Brant and Richmond on Sunday just after 2:00 in the afternoon when I saw 6 or 7 police on bikes, in their bright yellow cycling jackets, taking a whole lane along Richmond. At first, I thought this was great — a kind of police critical mass.
There were two young black men walking along the north sidewalk of Richmond, maybe 20 years old. Their appearance and behaviour was normal to my eye. As the police biked by, one of them slowed and stopped and started talking to one of the black men, who answered calmly. The policeman kept talking to him, and gradually let his bike drop and started talking to the guy more closely. The other black man had stopped a few yards away, as has the rest of the police. They then started questioning him too, and gradually they let their bikes drop and the four cops surrounded him. They had him spread his arms and started fishing in his pockets, and as I biked by when the light turned, I heard him spelling out his name. The two black men were calm and cooperative the whole time. I didn’t stick around to see the outcome.
I’ve heard black men — including Ward 20 candidate Desmond Cole, during the City Idol contest — say that being stopped and questioned by the police is something that they’ve experienced more than once. As I was watching this incident, I was really taken aback by it, and it seemed to be an example of this experience. But when I first posted this thought on this blog, I was taken to task for making this assumption based only on what I saw. Fair enough. It could be that the police had a reason to be suspicious that I wasn’t aware of. It could be that the police stop young men of many different ethnicities on an equal basis, and that the only reason I noticed this incident was because of the debate about racial profiling. Maybe most young men, whatever their ethnicity, have been stopped and questioned by police while walking along the street, at one time or another.
So my question to readers is, have you been stopped and questioned by the police while you were walking along the street? The issue is important, because it affects how people are able to use public space.
13 comments
I’m not sure that the degree of speculation, assumption, and profiling in this article are all that different from what you’re accusing the police of. A few too many seem/perhaps/maybes to form any conclusions – it seems 🙂
This article is ridiculous.
You drove by a bunch of cops questioning a couple of young black people, and knowing nothing else about the situation assumed that the cops must be racist. You didn’t even bother to stick around and see what happened but now feel like you’ve ‘witnessed a full incident’ of racial profiling.
What were you thinking when you posted this completely speculative nonsense on Spacing?
Yes! When I lived in cincinnati OH it happened all the time, they really harrassed me and others badly (I’m white but poor and was a teen young twenties when I lived there). It was horrible. I moved to Florida, There were race riots a year after I left and the FBI had to take over (literally) the police department because they were shooting an ever increasing number of unarmed black men, it was up to 22 in the year I moved.
It was worse when I moved to Venice Florida in Sarasota County. It wasn’t the locals, the Venice PD was quite nice. It was the county sherriff’s deputies. I felt as if I was being preyed upon. They do it everyone who’s not a retiree, especially after dark. They push you around, search you, and arrest dozens of people a day for “obstruction of justice” when they don’t comply with these searches (or worse). I seen them knock and old lady on her ass and point a gun at her at the scene of a car accident because she told him she was frightened by his screaming at her and aggressive manor.
I moved out after a fewyears but my children still live with their Mother in that god-awful place. Someone please protect the citizens of Sarasota County Florida from their police department.
I’ve lived in St. Petersburg Fl for 4 years now and haven’t had trouble with one single cop. I still get nervous when I see them, but I’m nowhere near as a fraid of them as I was.
Thank you for letting me tell my story…
Aren’t you profiling police behaviour?
I’m sure policing profiling does exist, but if the police gathered 6 or 7 men on bikes before talking to these guys, you have to assume they had good reason to do so.
What a ridiculous article – and I’m not sure it really belongs on Spacing – i know it makes for good ‘journalism’ to make wild (and then tempered) assumptions, but it just isn’t responsible to the police, and the citizens of Toronto to make such assumptions. Absolutely nail the 1% of cops that are found to be bad apples, but don’t make assumptions on the remaining 99% based on the idiots.
I’ve was randomly stopped a couple of times when I was in my 20s. I’m white, of European decent, and I took no offence when it happened. Both times, the cops basically asked what I was up to, and in one case, where I was headed, and that’s it. I answered politely, with no attitude, and they let me continue on my way.
I like that cops stop people. I think it should happen more often, because it would make our public spaces even safer. Bottom line, if you’ve got nothing to hide, you shouldn’t care or be worried if a cop stops you on the street.
Bottom line, if you’ve got nothing to hide, you shouldn’t care or be worried if a cop stops you on the street.
Yes, because cops never harass people, and never make mistakes. Our justice system works so well because it is infallible. (Sarcasm aside, There are plenty of reasons the “if you’ve got nothing to hide…” argument is stupid.)
I’m not sure the demographics of Spacing’s readership are such that you’ll get any interesting responses to this question.
Being a black male, in his late 20’s, I have yet to be harassed by Toronto Police whenever I visit Toronto(I live in Brampton.
Peel Police, now that is a different matter. I have been stopped and harassed by the police 3 times. All were for no good reason except on “suspiscion, which is totally BS. One plainclothes officer had to the nerve to tell me, that he saw me get into my friend’s car with a bag of weed!(I do not sell, or smoke the stuff). I, of course refused the search. If this is not profiling, than I do not know what is.
The writer seems to be making an observation, and not writing an article. And it brings up a good point about the police, and ethnicity.
And I agree with Ranaman. I cannot stand that “Let the cops search you, if you have nothing to hide”. argument.
It doesn’t matter that I do not have anything to hide. The police should not be stopping people randomly, without good reason.
I agree with ramanan, and share her doubt that the demographics of Spacing’s readership will produce much in the way of interesting responses to Dylan’s question.
I would like to point out that on-duty police officers are not the same as private citizens. Private citizens have certain rights that on-duty police officers do not. Police officers are effectively hired by the people to serve and protect the people, and should therefore be accountable to the people. It is the people’s responsibility to be concerned about the professional activities of police officers. Attempting to have a discussion about the professional activities of police officers by asking about people’s personal experience with the police is what engaged and responsible citizens should be doing.
There’s a HUGE difference between racial profiling and witnessing something that makes one scratch their head and want to talk about it. Yes, there was a lot of speculation on Dylan’s part, however it is an interesting topic for discussion, and isn’t any more speculative or nonsensical than loads of other things I’ve read on Spacing. From rants to opinion pieces, there is a lot on Spacing that doesn’t constitute “good journalism” and that doesn’t make any of it any less valuable or valid.
There are a lot of issues in the city that Spacing never talks about because people are too busy debating the merits of various garbage can designs. It’s nice to have someone bring something new, and something important to the table.
For the record, I’m white, female and clean-cut and I haven’t been stopped by police in the 13 years that I’ve lived downtown. I have also rarely seen anyone else get stopped by the police. Which isn’t surprising considering that I live in one of the rougher parts of town, where the police presence is almost non-existent, even though there’s a significant amount of crime in the area. Profiling is difficult when a community is dominated by people fitting the profile…
Just to clarify — I wasn’t just going by and saw some people being questioned — I see that all the time. The reason the incident struck me was that I saw it develop from before it even started, there was no visible cause for the stopping, and it did not appear the police had gathered for this specific purpose. I realize that still means I don’t know the whole story, though. There’s no way we could without a video and statements from everyone involved, which we’ll never get. As it was happening, I was really surprised and disturbed, but maybe my reaction was indeed conditioned by the prominence of the issue in the media. That’s why I’m curious about reader’s own experiences.
“Bottom line, if you’ve got nothing to hide, you shouldn’t care or be worried if a cop stops you on the street.”
I call bullshit on that. Being stopped for no reason is harrassment, plain and simple. The only way it isn’t is if a cop let’s you answer with “None of your business.” and let’s you continue on your way.
the only thing i would suggest is that it *is* possible that the police had been sent that way purposely to investigate a call or report of some sort of incident or crime and that those 2 gentlemen you had seen may have matched the description of the suspects. So in fact they may have been *specifically* targeted for questioning, not randomly targeted due to profiling. It is hard to say without further info.
Journalists usually get a bad rap, I know, but much of that often refers to gossip-mongering publications and 24 hour news channels. But if a newspaper reporter, for example, had seen this incident and felt there was a story, they at least would’ve followed up with an attempt to interview the policeman, who in turn would’ve simply said ‘no comment’ and referred him/her to the division staff sergeant. If the Sgt. has a good rapport with the reporter, he might make a comment, but would probably instead refer him/her to the Police Dept.’s communications dept., who wouldn’t make a comment unless charges had officially been laid. If a charge had been laid, it might make the police’s press releases but likely not unless it was a major incident. Thereafter the issue would die unless the reporter managed to find the person(s) police had stopped and interview them, or that person took the police to court. However, if the person only laid an official complaint with the police dept., police would not comment because it’s a personnel-related matter. It’s not an easy process to identify a story such as this, and quite unlikely enough material could be ‘dug up’ to write it as one. But a reporter’s really got to do all these things, it’s part of the drudgery of working the phones, not so romantic. The Star series on racial profiling would’ve exhausted thousands of manhours and a lot of money, not as easy as simply reporting what was seen on the street. A hunch is simply a hunch; work makes it a story.
The police have no right to question you or to even request to search or look into your (hand)bag without due cause – and you have the right to know why the police is requesting such a search.
You can refuse, as with the police who tried to search TTC passengers’ bags (after the London tube bombing).
As to even answer the police’s question as to where I’m going is an infringement of my rights as the police without proof (wrongly) assumes I have criminal intents.
Mr Leo G, the police is no different than a stranger asking what your intentions are – you weren’t stopped because the police felt lonely and wanted to chat: it’s called fishing for crime or evidence of crime.
Sure, they can charge you, but the judge will thrown it out; but its well worth it to expose such useless and bad policing in the guise of doing good .